TOWN OF RUTLAND
PLANNING BOARD
MINUTES: MAY 27, 2014
MEETING OPENED: 6:30 PM
Attendance
Board Members Present: Norm Anderson, Chairman; Marilyn Sidoti; Charles Richard Williams; Addison Redfield; Tim Nahrwold
Guests
See Sign In Sheets
Votes
Minutes from May 13, 2014 – Motion to approve amended minutes made by Mr. Williams, seconded by Mr. Redfield; vote unanimous at 6:48 PM.
Motion to close meeting – Motion made by Ms. Sidoti, seconded by Mr. Redfield; vote unanimous at 9:53 PM.
Hearings
George Lussier, Demond Pond, Two Estate Lots
Hearing Opened at 6:51 PM. Received check # 3582 for $500.00. There are 6 ANR lots that have already been signed off. He needs a special permit for Estate lots. They are 5+ acres in the back with 50’ of frontage. Looking at the map, Mr. Williams asked why not just do one lot. Mr. Lussier said that they went to DCR ahead of time and received their approval. Demond Pond will not be bothered. Mr. Williams said that all the dimensions are there. The access road will be on Pleasantdale Road. One abutter asked if his well will be bothered. Another abutter is also concerned because the water pressure is very low now and the water goes over the current culvert and into his backyard. Mr. Lussier said the pressure has nothing to do with wells. He is
here to see if this property meets the estate lot by-law requirements. Mr. Anderson said that any well questions should be directed to the Board of Health as they do not fall under the purview of the Planning Board. Mr. Nahrwold asked Mr. Lussier if all the perc’s have been done, which they have. An abutter wanted clarity what the area was zoned, and is concerned about excessive vehicles being stored in the area. The area is zoned residential. Mr. Lussier said that they have already met with the Highway department. The Board will be tabling the decision to next meeting. Motion to close hearing made by Mr. Redfield, seconded by Mr. Nahrwold; vote unanimous at 7:02 PM.
Elbag Brothers, Inc., Glenwood Road, One Estate Lot
Hearing opened at 7:08 PM. There is 50.44’ of frontage. An abutter wanted to know where this is located; this is down around a corner from her. The estate lot is 1 house with 5+ acres. The Board will be tabling the decision to the next meeting. Motion to close hearing made by Mr. Redfield, seconded by Mr. Williams; vote unanimous at 7:13 PM.
Brice Estates, Inc., Brice-Lemon Estates Hearing
The meeting was moved to the basement of the Town Hall. Hearing was opened at 7:22 PM. Mr. Anderson outlined the procedure that the hearing would take, saying that it would most likely be continued. It would be a presentation by the applicant, and then the Board could ask questions or make comments. Quinn Engineering would then present and the Board could again ask questions or comment about the project and finally the public would be allowed to speak.
George Kiritsy started with the presentation. Mr. Kiritsy stated that this hearing is for the amendment to the subdivision and they will only be focusing on the amendment; nothing else should be discussed. This is an application for an amendment to the original plan. This is not an application for zoning, and zoning should not be discussed under this application; no additional zoning relief will be required. The original subdivision had 112 lots and the amendment has 111 lots. The project is located on 121 acres of land on the Northerly side of Main Street. The wetlands run North to South on the property and the subdivision will run along a series of 7 roads where before there were 5 roads. There were 35 houses located on the Easterly side with bridges to get across the
wetlands; they have relocated these houses and they have been moved significantly away from the houses. They are now located on the Westerly side. The amendment now dedicates the best land to the Open Space. All lots will be serviced by town water and sewer and comply with Rutland’s by-laws.
Mr. Kiritsy went on to say that the original points of access remain the same and have not been redesigned. The Planning board already approved the roadways. The changes are all internal with the houses and with the Open Space Plan. The Wetland Bridge Crossing and bridges have been eliminated and the area will be left in its natural state and balances the site both for construction purposes and aesthetically and environmentally. There will be significantly less fill being brought in.
Mr. Anderson asked if the Board had any questions. Mr. Redfield asked if because the Crossings are being removed the roadways will be significantly less. Mr. Kiritsy stated that there were initially 5 ways and now there are 7, but the amount of linear feet of roadways will be reduced significantly. Mr. Anderson asked if lot sizes were changed; Mr. Kiritsy said some of the lots are smaller. There is over 63.28 acres of land dedicated to the Open Space in the subdivision.
Quinn Engineering reviewed the project for the Planning Board. Carl Hultgren from Quinn Engineering said that most of their points are technical in nature. Any waivers that may have been needed may not be needed any longer. They do believe, however, that security bars are still required at all entrances and exits. Mr. Williams is unsure about this and will look into it. Carl spoke to Gary Kelleher at Rutland DPW and he is not a fan of metal culverts. Mr. Williams asked about the height of the retaining wall at all wetland crossings of all culverts up Main Street to Maple Ave. and Carl believes it is approximately 8 feet. Mr. Williams asked about the regulations and if an engineer is needed. Mr. Blair stated that this is being addressed.
There will be a 20’ easement for access to the Rail Trail.
Carl had asked about sewer and wanted to know where it will go. Mr. Blair said it will go down Phillips Road and Main Street to Maple Avenue. Mr. Blair said the sewer extension has been reviewed and approved. Carl said that it would be shorter if it pumped through the subdivision rather than to Main Street and wanted to know why it wasn’t done this way. Mr. Williams agrees that the sewer line should run through the subdivision. Mr. Blair said that phasing would be one of the biggest reasons why they did it the way they did. Mr. Williams said it shows the water and sewer are one above the other on the plans and Mr. Blair said that has been changed. Mr. Williams asked if people can tie into the sewer and Mr. Blair said it would have to be gravity back to the station and then pumped back to
the gravity station not into the pressure line. Mr. Blair said it would be possible to tie in to the gravity sewers to pump station number 2 and other phases will be going to number 4. but not the regular pump station. Half of the sites (Phase 1 & 2) will gravity out and other phases will be going to a different pump station. The water will be looped once the final phasing is complete. Mr. Williams said that he thinks it would be better that the pump station is on its own lot and not have an easement on two lots and Mr. Blair said that isn’t consistent with the way its always been done. Mr. Nahrwold said it didn’t have to be the same size of a regular lot. Mr. Redfield agrees and asked about what would happen when the Town takes over. Mr. Kiritsy stated that the Town would be the easement holders and the town would have full rights on it and the owners of the lots would be subordinate to the town’s easement. Mr.
Anderson said that it sounds like a liability. Carl said easements and pump stations go hand in hand all the time and he had no concerns about it. Carl asked if there was a station to station phasing plan and Mr. Blair said that they could do that; Carl believes that would be most beneficial to the Board.
Carl said there should be 500 feet or less between fire hydrants and this will need to be drafted differently; Mr. Blair said that they are already relocating them.
Mr. Redfield asked if the water lines will be same as the ones on Main Street. Mr. Blair said yes and they will be 8 inch lines.
Mr. Williams said that on #62 on the Quinn report it states there is a 2 to 1 slope (the slope is steep) on Lot #34R and Mr. Blair said they are in the process of doing a grading report and will give to Carl for review.
Mr. Williams asked about #45 on the Quinn report in regard to Stormwater Reports; Carl is waiting for an updated report. Mr. Williams asked if a 2 year report is okay. Carl’s office is waiting and will respond after they get the information.
Ms. Sidoti had a question on #17 on the Quinn report. The spec’s call for 200’ and they have 350’. Mr. Williams said that the traffic will be difficult exiting Charnock Hill.
Mr. Williams had a question on #4; Between Lots 79 and 80 requires access to Open Space. Mr. Williams asked how people are going to get to the Open Space area. Mr. Blair asked Jeff Lacy from DCR who suggested a pedestrian walkway using stepping stones as an example. Carl said that if it is a public walkway it must be handicap accessible. Mr. Williams is thinking it would just be for the homeowner’s in the area, and Mr. Blair said he would be happy to do it if he can.
Mr. Williams asked about a Conservation Restriction. Mr. Blair’s preference is a Homeowner’s Association. the Mr. Williams believes the Town should own the open space because it is next to the park.
Mr. Williams asked about the standby generator setup and Mr. Blair stated that the standby generator is inside with propane.
Lot 111R on the plan was Lot 112 on the original.
Mr. Anderson said that it appears that Quinn Engineering is still waiting for a significant amount of information from Mr. Blair so he would expect another report with updated information. Mr. Blair said that Carl should have the information next week.
Mr. Anderson said that it would now be the public’s opportunity to speak. Jeff Lacy, DCR, stated they are both abutters and regulators. He feels that there are 2 issues tonight, the first one being should the board be entertaining a modification of a special permit or a new request for a special permit. He believes the Board should receive a new request. Mr. Lacy asked a bunch of colleagues what the planning board should do with the modification and the most common response was that if the plans are not in sync with the original it should be a new request. The second issue would be did the original special permit lapse, which Mr. Lacy is unsure but believes that it did lapse and therefore it is an expired special permit. The only way it would not be expired is if there was good
cause as to the delay.
Mr. Michael Sullivan asked and clarified with Mr. Lacy that he means the plans must be similar and all the criteria’s must all be similar or they should apply for a new permit. Mr. Kiritsy disagreed and said that the special permit and subdivision are two different things. The original special permit was granted for open space. The Special Permit comes first and then the subdivision gets approved. The sewer moratorium and the town litigation with DCR have all put this project on hold and Mr. Kiritsy is asking for the Special Permit. Mr. Blair said that we need the special permit approval and the special permit must be done prior to reviewing and plan design of the subdivision. Mr. Kiritsy said that DCR has not even commented. An abutter asked what the Board’s opinion on the
expired permit was and whether there has good cause. The Board does believe that there has been good cause. Mr. Sullivan asked when the original permit was issued and Mr. Blair said approximately in 2005. Mr. Anderson said he isn’t sure whether he agrees with either opinion about the expiration and believes that the Board should review the plans and their bylaw. Carl said that they did comment on the by-law in their report on Page 2. George said that the Permit opens up a plan for a subdivision. Mr. Nahrwold said that there are 10 criteria and he believes both plans follow these criteria and the Board should look through that. Mr. Lacy said an approved open space plan is an approved site plan which includes lots, etc. and site plans nail down all the roadways, etc.
Mr. Sullivan said that he disagrees with the additional sewer lines the town will have to maintain. He believes Mr. Blair doesn’t want to do the sewer lines through the subdivision because of Nobel Hill, and Mr. Sullivan disagrees with that reasoning. Mr. Sullivan also doesn’t think that the Board should allow 1,000 ft. dead end road and 20 houses. He believes that dead end roads like the one in Bear Hill should not be allowed. Mrs. Marcia Warrington said the dead end road is going to be done with the phases and there will not be an egress. Mr. Blair said that small pieces and small bites are the best way to go; it is not environmentally or economically wise to build all the way through. The phasings are negotiable, but the worst thing he can do is cut too many lots, open too many
roads at one time. Mr. Kiritsy added that there is no proposal to build dead ends and the dead ends will be temporary. He also stated that the Board has in the past approved dead ends. An abutter asked how long it would take to attach the roads. Mr. Blair said that it is market driven, but guesses 3-5 years.
Mr. Sullivan said that there are many failed septics along Main Street and Kenwood Street and that the Board should look into the failed septics and see if they can tie into this.
Mrs. Warrington asked about the Army Corp of Engineering filing and when they will be doing that. Mr. Kiritsy said that the Army Corp is not under Planning Board purview or for their discussion.
Mr. Redfield motioned to close the hearing; Mr. Williams objected and wishes to continue the hearing. Mr. Redfield believes we will just be going over the same material and by closing the hearing the Board may go into everything at length. Mrs. Warrington interjected stating that the hearing was opened saying that it would be continued. Mr. Anderson believes that we should continue the hearing. Motion to close does not pass. Motion to continue to July 8, 2014 at 7:00 PM made by Mr. Nahrwold, seconded by Ms. Sidoti; vote passes at 8:59 PM with Mr. Redfield opposed.
Mr. Lacy suggested that the Board get a letter from the applicant approving the continuance; Mr. Kiritsy drafted and gave a letter to the Board approving the continuance.
Discussions
Brice Estates, Inc., Brice-Lemon Estates
Mr. Anderson said that the procedure for the discussion will be the Board and then the public. This discussion is on the already approved Brice-Lemon Estates. There are concerns that not all proper permitting has taken place. Mr. Anderson stated that he is in receipt of a bunch of correspondence about this project from various agencies, and although there are conditions of approval; he feels that he has nothing he needs to have.
He has a letter from the Army Corp of Engineers from 2004 that says they have concerns about one wetlands crossing off Charnock Hill Road and that there will need to be a filing with them. Mr. Blair said he met with Army Corp. in March. Mr. Blair stated that they are going to fill at the crossings, of which there are 3 total. He said if he chooses to instead span the wetlands then he will not need to file with the Army Corp. Mr. Anderson said that there is nothing definitive in their letters, and would like a letter saying that they do not need a filing. Mr. Blair said that the first wetland will be spanned and does not require a 404 wetland filing. Mrs. Warrington said that the Army Corp has not received any new plans. Mr. Blair stated that no Army Corp filing is needed because
the new subdivision has not been approved. Approval needs to be done on the subdivision prior to any Army Corp filing. Mr. Anderson said he would like a letter from Army Corp. stating no filing is needed. Mr. Kiritsy said that a letter like that is not normally done.
Mr. Blair also wanted to let the Board know that the work being done now is under the original subdivision plan and does not need Army Corp. approval. Mr. Nahrwold is having a hard time with the work being done under the old permit with the new permit being processed.
Mrs. Warrington is concerned about the Historical Landmark site and this is her concern. She said that Army Corp. was the lead on this, but the application had been pulled back, she believes because they knew the issues it would raise. She has spoken to many agencies, including Mass Historic today and they have not received any applications. She said the Historic Landmark is important to the Town and the Board must recognize this. Mr. Blair said that they are not working in the landmark. The Mass Historical society has never sent a letter. Mr. Kiritsy said that there is no state Landmark, and the National Trust for Historical Preservation is not a state agency. Mr. Kiritsy also points out that this is not a Planning Board issue and there is no required permit. Mr. Blair
said that he has everything that has been required. Mrs. Warrington said that the Landmark is in the Library of Congress, which is federal, and they have a dual designation. Attorney Meloche stated he was an attorney representing the Warrington’s and according to the original conditions National Trust for Historical Preservation had to review prior to a permit being issued by the Board. Mr. Kiritsy stated that the National Trust for Historical Preservation is not a government agency. Attorney Meloche and Attorney Kiritsy argued. Mr. Anderson called for order.
Mr. Anderson reiterated that the Board does not have all the required paperwork and he does not believe that Mr. Blair can’t get a letter from Army Corp. saying they do not need to file. Mrs. Warrington asked if her question could be answered and wants to know why the board is not enforcing their own Certificate of Actions. Ms. Sidoti believes that they were to be enforced on the Federal level and Marcia said no that is not correct. Mr. Blair said the Crossing has been there and when on the Conservation Commission site walk Mr. Blair asked the Conservation Board members if they could use corduroy and the Board Members said yes. Mr. Blair stated he has done everything by the book and if anyone could have shut them down they would have by now; he believes he has filed everything he needs filed at this
point.
Mrs. Warrington said Condition #26 on the Board’s Certificate of Action states they must go to Mass Historical Society and wants to know why this condition isn’t being followed. Ms. Sidoti asked what National Agency the National Trust for Historical Preservation fell under. Mrs. Warrington said none. Ms. Sidoti asked what branch of government they fall under, and Mrs. Warrington said they were its own agency. Mr. Kiritsy said that it isn’t a government agency at all, it is a non-profit agency, and under its own letter it states it is a non-profit agency in the first sentence.
Ms. Sidoti believes that the Board should adjourn so that they can review in detail what they need to review. Mr. Nahrwold said that in reviewing the letters the Army Corp. does not reference the same agency. Mrs. Warrington said that their name has changed since the first letter. Mr. Nahrwold is trying to figure out who is in charge. Mrs. Warrington said that it was the Army Corp. who would be contacting every other agency needed. Mr. Nahrwold then asked that if a MEPA was filed if that would have triggered these notifications. Mr. Nahrwold asked Mr. Lacy if DCR has come across this issue before because it sounds like the applicant has contacted people and they don’t want to respond about the project. Mr. Lacy was unsure about the answer to that question. Mr. Nahrwold
is confused, and that if Mass Historic had a problem with this project, he wonders why they didn’t have anything to say. Mrs. Warrington said nothing has happened and there has been no activity, which is why there has been no more current correspondence. Mr. Sullivan stated that it seemed questions are being directed toward the public and it should be the Board’s job, not the resident’s to find out what the entities input is. Mr. Redfield disagrees with Mr. Sullivan, as well as Mr. Blair, who stated it is up to the applicant, not the Board who has been doing their job. Mr. Anderson agrees that due diligence is needed. Ms. Sidoti would like to adjourn so they can go through all the regulations, etc.
Reviewed Mail.
Respectfully Submitted,
Karen Wamback
Secretary
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