TOWN OF RUTLAND
CONSERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES: NOVEMBER 18, 2014
MEETING OPENED: 7:00 PM
Attendance
Board Members Present: Joe Dell’Aquila, Chairman; Scott Landgren; Willard Cannon; Eric Bigelow; Nancy Nichols; Shawn Moore
Guests
Jennifer Howald, DCR; Chris Warrington; Marsha Warrington; Peter Craine; Julian Votruba; Sheila Dibb; Mark Elbag, Jr.
Application Submissions
Abbreviated Notice of Resource Area Delineation, J. M. Soucy, Main Street and Bond Street
Hearing will be December 2nd at 7:15 PM. 17 acre parcel of land and the wetlands are flagged.
Notice of Intent, Elbag Brothers, Inc. – Lot 10, Glenwood Road
Hearing will be December 2nd at 7:30 PM. Outside of the 100’ buffer zone. Site walk was already done.
Request for Determination of Applicability, Elbag Brothers, Inc., Lot 1, Ridge Road
Discussion will be December 2nd at 7:40 PM. Outside of the 100’ buffer zone. Site walk was already done.
Votes
Motion to sign Order of Conditions for Mr. Caloiaro, 97 Pleasantdale Road – Motion to sign made by Eric, seconded by Scott; vote unanimous at 7:09 PM.
Minutes from October 7, 2014 – Motion to approve minutes made by Eric, seconded by Scott; vote unanimous at 7:15 PM.
Minutes from October 21, 2014 – Motion to approve minutes with amendment should be Lot 10 not Lot 1 made by Shawn, seconded by Scott; vote unanimous at 7:17 PM.
Motion to sign Order of Conditions for Brice-Lemon Estates, Main Street at Charnock Hill Road – Motion to sign made by Scott, seconded by Nancy; vote unanimous at 10:24 PM.
Motion to close meeting – Motion made by Willard, seconded by Eric; vote unanimous at 10:30 PM.
Hearings
NONE
Discussions
Order of Conditions, Mr. Caloiaro, 97 Pleasantdale Road
Mark wanted to let us know that even though it was not necessary, he only filed the Notice of Intent because of its proximity to the Rail Trail, in case there were any questions.
Order of Conditions, Brice-Lemon Estates, Main Street at Charnock Hill Road
Joe explained that the hearing has been closed so we can not accept any opinions or comments from the public, but the public is welcome to stay for the meeting.
Marsha Warrington asked about the timeline and what the November 30th date was – she wanted to know what was happening on November 30th. Marsha stated she wanted to go on record that she did not receive any response about the November 30th date. Joe explained that they did discuss this and he explained the Order of Conditions is being done tonight and the November 30th deadline is from Mr. Blair and not the Conservation Commission and not DEP. Marsha said that DEP is under the impression that the Order of Conditions is being written on November 30th and she has not been able to get an answer. Joe explained again that he has told her 3 or 4 times already. Nancy asked if there was something that she was missing; she feels there is
because she senses a lot of tension in the room. Marsha said that as an abutter she has a right to have answers to her questions and wanted to know what the latest set of plans date was. Joe told her she is not an abutter; Marsha said she is a concerned citizen. Joe said that he told her that we have had the plans and she is upset she has not received any correspondence about the plans. Joe said that she has been told we have the set of plans and that once the Town Clerk has the Order of Conditions she is welcome to a copy of it. Nancy asked again whether any conversations have happened that the Board hasn’t been apprised of. Marsha said that she has called repeatedly and is ignored and had to have Phil Nadeau call. Joe said that he has answered many of her calls and feels that she is badgering him with the same thing over and over. Marsha said that she is not badgering him and she has a right to know what is going on as a concerned
citizen, and again requested information about the timeline because the 21 days had expired. Eric explained that the 21 days were expired but we were graciously given an extension from Mr. Blair. Jennifer said that the last meeting ended from the lack of a quorum because a Board Member had to leave; Joe interjected that he was accused of orchestrating that event. Marsha denied the accusation. Nancy is upset that it seems some people are not being treated professionally and we should be treating everyone equally, which she doesn’t feel we are. Joe said he had given them numerous return calls and has spoken to them numerous times. Shawn would like to get to working on the Order.
Marsha said that the Town Hall does not have a copy of the most recent plans, which should be provided. Joe said we received the plans already. Eric said that when we get the plans we go through page by page so that we can review. Eric is concerned about the cuts and the water table. Joe said that there are only 3 pages we are concerned with in the full set of plans. Eric is concerned about the streams. Scott feels that those concerns are lot specific. After November 30th the Order of Conditions request will go to DEP by default so this needs to be done tonight. The plans have gone missing from the room. Sheila asked what we plan on doing and Joe said we don’t have the plans so we are going to have to wait; Sheila said “nice Joe”. A set
of plans have been found, and Marsha asked if the set is from June 30, 2014 and they were. Marsha said that is why as Joe has said she has been badgering him – to find out what plans we were going to do the Order of Conditions on. Joe called Mr. Blair and he will be bringing a set in 15 minutes. Marsha asked what the dates of the plans are that we closed the hearing on, and Joe said the most current plans. Marsha said the Planning Board received the newest plans on October 14, 2014 and asked if we received the plans prior to the Planning Board. Carl Hultgren from Quinn Engineering reviewed them and the hearing was closed on the plans that Carl reviewed.
Meeting breaks while we wait for the plans at 7:56 PM. Meeting reconvened at 8:11 PM.
Mr. Blair brought in the plans he had and the Board reviewed them. Eric said we are conditioning the whole project and Scott said mostly the roadways. Joe said that the 3 pages are all we are conditioning. Eric said he would like to review the plans thoroughly before conditioning, and that we have jurisdiction over the whole plan. Scott said we already delineated this and we don’t condition outside the 100’. Eric said the big cuts where they hit water and put it in the sub drain and fills will happen with the roads as well as the lots. They are saying they are going to take water and put into basins and it is going to take all the water away and will dry up the Crossing; Eric would like to keep the water in the wetlands. Scott said this is what the engineers do and it should
be done in each lot when they come down. Scott said the drainage plan has already been approved. Eric said that the cutting was questioned and the builder had said that they were going to the basins. Eric said this issue is what happened at Bear Hill. Eric said his concern is going into the water table and it may dry up. Eric asked if we can condition this to check the water table. Eric said it is hydrology and within our purview; Scott says anything past the 100’ is not for us but for DCR. Looking at the Crossing plan and all the cutting there are 3 major cuts that are concerning to Eric. There is some sort of storm scepter to a small outlet he didn’t even know about within a temporary grading easement. There is also a lot of fill there and the wetlands are right next to the drainage systems. Shawn asked if the system will be sending the overflow to the wetlands and Eric said yes; Shawn said so they will essentially
stay wet. Shawn does agree that it looks like a lot of water.
Eric said that there are at least potentially 5 places where issues like what happened before could easily happen again. Scott suggested as a condition detention ponds should be able to put them in whenever and if he wants to put it in earlier than 85% build out he can build the basins. Eric said he has seen only one basin so far. Scott said it will stabilize the area better and faster; not temporary ones but permanent ones. Eric believes that the phases are going to cut/fill within each phase so he is not sure where the fill would come from for the basin. Joe agrees this would be a great Condition to add.
There is a Crossing in the corner in Phase 4 with rip wrap and they will be replicating the area around the Crossing. Shawn said that it appears they are replicating a lot. Eric asked if this is the one they are going though. There were a couple of options to go through it or not. They are stabilizing each area as they do them and they can’t do anything past the first crossing at this point.
Eric asked if they are outside the 100’ but they hit the water will we have jurisdiction. Joe said no if it isn’t in the wetlands we don’t have jurisdiction. Eric said he wants to keep the water in the ground and asked if we had jurisdiction and Jennifer said until it affects the wetlands we have no jurisdiction but once it affects it and we can prove it then we will have jurisdiction. Jennifer said that even if we know it can happen we can’t do anything until it does happen and we can prove it; there must be both. Joe said this is part of the regulations. Joe said that even after the Order of Conditions is written they still have to follow all the regulations. Eric asked if they have done anything on Sedona Circle yet and the answer is all they are doing is breaking ledge. Eric said that EcoTec did not look for the wood frogs by the cart path and that there were no vernal pools in that area per EcoTec and Eric disagrees; he believes there is a vernal pool there.
Scott said that delineating the wetlands would look for vernal pools and Eric said that EcoTec was not instructed to do so. Shawn asked Eric what he wanted to do about it and if we should condition it. Scott said DCR and DEP would know if there was a vernal pool and would have let us know about it. Eric and Shawn looked up the area where the chorus of frogs was online, but there were too many trees to get a good look. Nancy said she thought they would have looked at that and Eric said no they only did wetland delineation and Joe said that should be included. The system on the left when you drive in is permanent. Eric asked if it was the same system that they are doing right now; there is no basin but will be a depression that hasn’t been done yet and there will be hay bales and silt fencing.
Eric suggested we should condition how they are doing the utilities and Joe said that if they violate the regulation even if there is no ConCom Condition it is still a violation. Joe said we can’t be too specific because then if something doesn’t work they can say they did it our way. Eric disagrees and believes we should be specific and we should look at everything. Joe said we can’t engineer the job for them. Eric said it is a difference between being proactive or reactive. Joe said that is what the regulations are for, and we can’t condition for every possible scenario. Eric said he is more comfortable now that he has reviewed all the plans and we should take the time to look at everything. Scott said that everyone had a copy of the plans to be reviewed, and
Eric said he didn’t get a chance too. Shawn asked if everyone feels better about the Crossings. Joe thinks we should start with the boiler plate conditions and add onto them. On the Crossing they are going to be digging in so it will be pumping water definitely so it will be dirty water. Scott said they could do it so many different ways; Shawn said that we can condition to make sure they send no dirty water to wetlands. This is a current part of the regulation, but Eric thinks we should also make it an extra regulation.
Jennifer wanted to let us know that currently there are no DCR variances for the new project and there is none for the old project either.
Eric asked if because we have Quinn for the duration we should mention Quinn but would it be specific or say “our consultant”. Joe thinks if we say Quinn we are stuck whereas if we say our consultant it can be changed, if needed.
Shawn had to leave at 9:45 PM.
Reviewed the Superseding Order of Conditions and the Special Conditions from DEP and adopted some of theirs to add to our Order. Eric asked about vernal pools and conditions. Joe doesn’t believe we can do anything now. Eric disagrees and Jen said that because the hearing is closed we have “missed the boat” until the next extension or amendment at which time we can bring it up. Jen said that there is a very strict criteria that needs to be followed in order to classify as a Certified Vernal Pool. Eric thinks that it would be worth a look after a good rainstorm.
Reviewed Mail.
Respectfully Submitted,
Karen Wamback, Secretary
| 
