TOWN OF LYME
Town Offices Building Committee
January 10, 2007
MINUTES
Present: Chair Peter Bleyler, Administrative Assistant Carole Bont, Frank Bowles, Don Metz, Tish Smith, Jane Fant, Tom Hunton, Selectman Dick Jones, Freda Swan and Selectman Judith Lee Shelnutt Brotman.
Absent: Michael Woodard, Tony Pippin, Sr., and Patricia G. Jenks (performing town clerk/tax collector duties as her deputy was sick)
1. Pete Bleyler opened the meeting at 11:33 AM.
2. Tish Smith moved to approve both sets of minutes for December 18th – the Public and Non-Public Sessions as well as the minutes for January 3, 2007. Frank Bowles seconded. The committee voted unanimously to approve.
3. Chair Pete Bleyler reported that the Board of Trustees of the Upper Valley Land Trust (hereinafter referred to as UVLT) met on Monday. They approved, in general, the acceptance of our offer with some proposed changes – making, in essence, a counter - offer. The UVLT did not tell us about their decision until just before this meeting today - Wednesday. They waited until someone from their Board had a chance to tell Bayne Stevenson about it first and that happened yesterday. Apparently, a member of the UVLT spoke to him about it personally. A letter also went to Bayne Stevenson. Chair Pete Bleyler referred to the
handouts in which the UVLT essentially made a counter-proposal. The committee compared the original offer made by the Town to the counteroffer from the UVLT. The changes are as follows:
a. The southern-most section of the premises shall be dedicated to open space. It shall not be developed with buildings or facilities and shall generally remain free of non-permeable surface structures (such as asphalt or concrete), and protected from pollution and other environmental degradation in favor of native soil and plants.
b. The town shall provide for a public trail and trailhead with appropriate signage and a kiosk to connect trails maintained by the UVLT on adjoining property. The town shall provide space for at least 4 parking spaces for users of the trails.
c. The town shall permit public access on the trail for non-motorized pedestrian purposes. The Town and the UVLT, for good cause, may agree to temporarily limit or restrict public use of and access to the premises or adjoining conservation lands in the event there are significant threats to the conservation values of the adjoining conservation lands or to public health and safety.
d. They added the form of payment “payable by bank or cashier’s check at closing. The town is to pay all recording costs and transfer taxes, if any.”
e. Under “Conditions” they added the part at the end in parenthesis: The property shall be conveyed by a good and sufficient warranty deed conveying good, clear record and marketable title and shall be free and clear of all encumbrances (except the servitude referred to herein).”
f. They added a date of the town needing to notify the UVLT if title is found by the town’s examination of title by town counsel to be unmarketable by May 1, 2007.
4. Carole Bont commented that we would need to define more specifically the area referred to as the southern-most section of the premises dedicated to open space. Dick Jones and Judith Brotman suggested that a drawing could be made and initialed by both parties clearly defining the restricted area.
5. Don Metz asked about the removal of the language about the fifty-foot right of way that benefited Roy VanVleck. Peter Bleyler explained that he had discussed this matter with Jeannie McIntyre, Director of the Upper Valley Land Trust. The right of way referred to is a “soft” right of way that is not clearly defined. According to Jeannie, because the dominate estate (the estate that benefits from the right of way (Map 402, lot 57) is no longer owned by Roy VanVleck, but by the UVLT, there would be no need to extinguish the right of way. The UVLT owns both the dominant and subservient estates (the land that benefits from the
right of way and the land that is subject to the right of way). Carole Bont expressed her opinion that any successor organization or later trustees who did not know the history of the transaction would look and find a recorded right of way recorded in the Register of Deeds and have a legal right to exercise it over the subservient estate (the land the town wishes to purchase – Map 402, Lot 59). For this reason Carole Bont suggested that we would need to have the UVLT extinguish the fifty foot right of way granted by the UVLT to Roy VanVleck, even though the UVLT now owns the VanVleck property.
6. Don Metz asked whether or not anyone had checked to see that the UVLT had a state-sanctioned ability to get a curb cut. Dick Jones explained that the state allows only so many curb cuts per mile and that it generally only allowed one curb cut per property. Freda Swan responded that she knew for sure that the UVLT land had a state-sanctioned curb cut.
7. Don Metz also noted the mention of the right of first refusal. He asked who had the right of first refusal. Carole Bont responded that she thought that the Audobon Society did. This information came from Jeannie McIntyre several months ago when we were first looking at the UVLT property as an option. When we began our initial discussions with the UVLT the Audobon Society had looked to see if they could benefit financially from such a transaction in any way.
8. Peter Bleyler reported that whether the town buys the UVLT land or not, the UVLT was looking to sell the land anyway. He referenced the letter to Bayne Stevenson from the UVLT.
9. Dick Jones commented that he is concerned about the part of the paragraph restricting the development of permeable surfaces and is concerned that we would not be allowed to blacktop the parking area. This would not be acceptable. Frank Bowles pointed out that the restriction applied to the area not to be developed. There are a number of permeable paving surfaces available that he described and even hard-pack is permeable – at least theoretically.
10. Peter Bleyler then passed out a copy of a letter from Donald Graham for the UVLT Board of Trustees to Bayne Stevenson that included the sentence: “Should Lyme voters choose not to appropriate funds for the purchase, UVLT will seek similar terms with another buyer.” The UVLT is very concerned that it not be perceived as either helping or hindering the town’s project. The UVLT is only interested in making the land available to the town and that in doing so that it provides a benefit to the public in keeping with their organization’s goals. They are working on talking points so they can discuss it with their members and
the public.
11. Jane Fant asked: Where do we go from here? What if we buy this land and then the “perfect” solution presents itself someplace else? Are we stuck with putting the town offices on this lot? Can we turn around and sell this land? Would a new buyer be subject to the same restrictions that we would be? Can we write the warrant article so that we can offer two possible options to the voters?
12. Dick Jones explained that if the warrant article is defeated we would have no obligation to buy the property as the terms of the purchase and sales agreement is conditional on the project’s being approved at town meeting. We put no money down so there would not be a loss of deposit monies. If the warrant article passes at town meeting and our monetary amount has been accepted by the UVLT then we would have a moral if not a legal obligation to buy the property if we have a purchase and sale agreement with the UVLT. Tom Hunton pointed out that we do not have a purchase and sale agreement. Our offer has been rejected. The UVLT has
only made a counter offer which we can either accept or reject. Dick Jones pointed out that the UVLT had accepted our monetary offer, but that the conditions of the offer were still being negotiated. Judy Brotman agreed with Dick.
13. Dick Jones further pointed out that if we bought the UVLT property and then sold it, the new owners would be subject to the same restrictions and conditions that we would have been.
14. In response to the question, “Can we write the warrant article so that it can offer two possible options to the voters?” Judy Brotman and Dick Jones explained that in the warrant article you will probably need to write what parcel you intend to buy and where you are putting the project with a fairly complete description. Furthermore, the taxpayers are going to want the answers to that exact question before they will even consider voting on such a proposal.
15. Someone asked about the newly learned state requirement that the library be located in the school. Tish Smith explained that the state requirement that the school library be included in the school has been around for a long time, but there is no means to enforce that requirement. If you don’t do it nothing will happen. Apparently, there are 5-6 other towns in New Hampshire that are in a similar situation, but these towns have no pressing desire to put a separate library in their schools. It would require a significant duplication of materials and staff. In lieu of putting a library in the school our school board is just looking
to get a fully qualified “librarian” (media specialist) in the school and will continue to use the town library facility and resources. Judy Brotman explained that the school gets a waiver each year, but the state is more and more hesitant to grant a waiver. The state wants book displays in the school and at some point may require the school library to relocate into the school. Tish Smith explained that when she went to a meeting with the school she learned that it was the heightened concern of the present librarian that the town library did not appear to be providing enough support for the school. Betsy Eaton the librarian, explained that the school librarian needs to be in the classrooms so that for example, if she knew that the class was going to be doing a project on Tanzania, she could pull the resources together for the students in time to meet their needs by getting books back that are checked out or get books through interlibrary loan,
etc. Sometimes in the middle of a class a question would arise that could be answered quickly if the library were in the school, but instead the question has to wait until the next weekly class visit to the library. By the time the children got to the library the question was stale. This was not happening.
16. Frank Bowles asked what the consequences are if one year soon we do not get a waiver? Tish Smith said she did not know. Frank Bowles reminded people that he and Geoff had looked at the school site. The library would be very expensive and difficult, but do-able. However, the options are to take a big chunk of the playing fields out back or put it on the end where the cafeteria is and move all of the services on that end of the building upstairs. It would require building an upstairs. Someone suggested that perhaps if the town keeps growing that perhaps we could leave the adult library where it is now and then build a kids library
in the school. Tish Smith commented that in the discussions of the school board they had made it clear that they would want the school library located in the center of the school. Frank Bowles exclaimed that that would be a multi-million dollar fix. It would require a total rebuilding of a good portion of the school.
17. Frank Bowles then asked the committee – Is the present library building a good place to have a town office anyway? Frank Bowles commented that as an architect he believed that there were serious problems with the present set-up of the library as town offices. He recently had a chance to spend time upstairs in the library and looked carefully at it with the idea of relocating town offices upstairs. In his opinion the building does not lend itself to this purpose. There would be serious circulation problems.
18. Peter Bleyler asked whether the library had any plans to move within the next two years or so. Freda Swan commented that she thought that the new proposed library in the school would happen incrementally as that is how the library usually does things. First they will move a few books and book displays over there. Then it will take up a portion of a room, then a full room, etc.
19. Frank Bowles said that he did not think it was clear that the Converse Library would work well for town offices anyway, leaving aside the question about whether the library intended to move across the street or not. If the library were to eventually move across Route 10 into the school then the Converse Library might make a good senior center. In his opinion, the building would not work for town offices. Frank Bowles asked Don Metz, as the primary architect of the present town offices and the back library addition, whether he thought the library building would work well for town offices. Don Metz said he thought it might. Dick Jones
expressed concern about the sturdiness of the floor upstairs to support the large banks of filing cabinets. Don Metz told the committee that the building was built strong enough to support multiple stacks of library books and thus was strong enough to support files. According to Don Metz, the upstairs is pretty “rugged”.
20. Tom Hunton asked how soon the school and library were looking to move over to the school building. Judy Brotman said she knew of no vote to build a new school library any time soon. The school seems to be satisfied with the current library arrangement. The librarian is not.
21. Dick Jones said that the former members of the Town Offices Building Committee looked into putting an addition onto the current library building several years ago, but it was not a practical solution.
22. Peter Bleyler then asked the committee members to reconsider and revisit the issue of Tuckaway Timber. Did the committee want to offer the Mathers more money for the Tuckaway Timber site, subject to the Mathers getting an appraisal for their property that would support the higher price? We talked about contacting the Mathers at our last meeting, but then decided to wait until we heard from UVLT about our offer. Do you want to call the Mathers in Florida?
23. Dick Jones expressed his opinion that although we looked at Tuckaway Timber and although the location is viable, he considered the UVLT site superior because a new building would allow the town to design the building for the purposes it needed. It would be best to design the building to maximize work flow as well as energy conservation. Plus, if we paid the Mathers what they were asking for or something close to it, the whole project would cost several hundreds of thousands of dollars more than the UVLT option. Furthermore, we cannot get away from the fact that although Tuckaway Timber is a 1½ story building we would only be able to use the
first story, because the second floor ½ story is too short to be usable for office space.
24. Thomas Hunton disagreed with Dick Jones. He said we should write a letter to the Mathers and see what they would be willing to do to reduce their price. He thinks that he and everyone else will view the site as “way down Route 10” and too far away from the heart of the Lyme village. Freda Swan pointed out that site is not really very far from the heart of the Lyme Village. It is only 1.4 miles from the flag pole on the common. Dick Jones pointed out that looking at the relative cost of the project at that site, town offices on the Tuckaway Timber site was only do-able if the purchase price was at the level of the appraised
value (referring to the appraisal performed by the independent appraisers from Holderness, NH). The large difference between the asking price and the appraised value put it out of the ballpark as a financially viable option. Furthermore, the very firm asking price far exceeded the appraised value. Dick Jones felt that putting off the project until after going back and forth with the Mathers would put the whole project at risk.
25. Thomas Hunton suggested that we wait another year and asked what risk anyone thought putting off the project for another year would present. Maybe a better solution would present itself in the interim. We need more time to figure out what the school and library people want to do about the school library portion of the library.
26. Dick Jones responded that the Town already has conceptual drawings, but we will need more than that to present at town meeting and to the budget committee. Each of the other options we looked at involved renovating an old pre-existing building, none of which were particularly well-suited for town offices. Renovating an older building is always riskier than building new. Every time you open a wall you discover a new problem which involves unanticipated expenditures. With a new building you would have a much better handle on the costs and controlling the costs.
27. Addressing the increased costs of renovation versus building new, Frank Bowles reminded the committee that the plans of the UVLT site were made long before we realized the full extent of the permanent storage needs. When we did the last set of plans for Tuckaway Timber we had made a number of decisions because of having to accommodate the pre-existing building that would make that particular site more expensive. For example, one assumption we made was that we would have to prepare and pour foundations for three separate structures – the police office, the vault for the town offices and the police garage. It is much more efficient and cost
effective to integrate all of the functions into one building.
28. At approximately 12:38 PM, Pete Bleyler moved to go into nonpublic session in accordance with RSA:91-A2,II(d), in consideration of the purchase, sale or lease of real property which if discussed in public would likely benefit a party or parties whose interests are adverse to those of the general community. Motion was seconded by Don Metz and approved unanimously by roll call vote.
29. Frank Bowles made a motion, seconded by Dick Jones, to exit Non-Public session at 12:28 PM. Dick Jones made a motion to keep the minutes of Non-Public Session sealed under RSA 91-A:3,II(d) as divulgence of the information would likely render the proposed action ineffective. Voted in the affirmative by roll call vote.
30. Frank Bowles made a motion to affirm the decision made in non-public session to accept the counteroffer of the UVLT to purchase the land for $125,000. All members voted in favor except for Freda Swan who abstained.
31. Frank Bowles will work with Geoffrey Thornton, Architect, to refine the plans, to have something to present to the budget committee and the public.
32. Peter Bleyler reviewed the expenses associated with project. Bottom Line: Cost will be somewhere between $1,500,000 and $1,900,000. Frank Bowles suggested a more accurate figure of about $1,750,000.
33. Carole Bont needs to get a firm estimate on the cost of the filing system from the company who gave us the presentation.
34. Frank Bowles offered to design the furniture, donating his time, and to buy the materials wholesale to outfit the building. He did this with the Falmouth Library and hopes to make a comfortable environment for everyone. People expressed their appreciation.
35. Peter Bleyler will put together an information sheet with four bullets about the pros and cons of the options we considered. We will provide a copy of the handout to the Board of Selectmen for their review on the Wednesday morning meeting. He asked people to e-mail him with their thoughts on this.
36. Peter Bleyler will contact Jeannie McIntyre of the UVLT to inform her of our decision and to bring up the concerns expressed by the committee. He will also call Geoffrey Thornton, Architect, and get him to finish up the plans with Frank Bowles.
37. The Board of Selectmen will negotiate the remaining details of the Purchase & Sale Agreement with the UVLT after consultation with the Town’s attorney.
38. Don Metz made a motion to adjourn at 12:43 PM. Dick Jones seconded. Vote was unanimous. We will reconvene our meeting next Wednesday at 11:30 PM in the Lyme Fire Training Room. Jane Fant will be away and unable to attend. We discussed the fact that Freda Swan is unable to attend Monday morning meetings. Jane Fant is unable to attend Wednesday morning meetings. Because Jane is away anyway on Wednesday we will meet this next Wednesday and at that time try to pick a better meeting time.
Carole Bont
Recorder
| 
