GCC MEETING MINUTES
May 31, 2007
Third Floor Meeting Room
Attending: Carl Shreder, Paul Nelson, Tom Howland, John Bell, Charles Waters, Mike Birmingham, Steve Przyjemski, Sharon Munro
BUSINESS:
-Discussion regarding Camp Denison property.
- Survey needed of land – fund as CPC project
- Need to perform a deed search
- Continue to 6/28 at 7:15PM
-Discussion on COC Bonds.
MOTION to pay bills. Paul/Mike All/UNAM
-Signing for Notary Public for Sharon Munro (References)
-Signing for an Extension on an OC. (Sand and Gravel)
HEARINGS:
74 Jackman Street
Reps., Owner: Russell Beegan
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - Did everyone get the letter from the fire chief?
Russell Beegan, Owner: No
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - I think it was left up for interpretation.
Paul Nelson, GCC - We had talked about pervious material last time.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - We agreed that it would agreeable to pave the entire drive if a pervious surface is used.
Carl Shreder, GCC - What happened with this letter from the chief? How was the information gathered?
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - I had requested it.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - It really should have been 10’ on the driveway.
Paul Nelson, GCC - So, the only other real issue is the fill.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent – Yes, but, you all have asked me to contact the fire chief to find out their take on this.
Russell Beegan, Owner – Yes, the concern was how they can get in there if they needed to.
Carl Shreder, GCC - So, do we leave the bridge alone?
Steve Przyjemski, Agent – Yes.
Carl Shreder, GCC – So, as far as, the fill; you need to pull it all out there.
Russell Beegan, Owner: Yeah, there was talk about removing fill from another area and I wasn’t clear on that.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Where is this, by the road?
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - Let me look again to make sure. It is here (referring to the map).
Carl Shreder, GCC – So, where is the fill, now? How wide is the road?
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - It’s pretty wide.
Mike Birmingham, GCC -What is the total area of the fill?
Paul Nelson, GCC - Didn’t we already talk about the damage this will cause?
Steve Przyjemski, Agent – Yes, but, the damage that is done is already extensive in comparison.
Carl Shreder, GCC - When was this done?
Russel Beegan, Owner – It was about a year ago that it was done because of plowing issues. It was done to fill in the area to allow plowing.
Carl Shreder, GCC - This fill was brought in to make the road wider?
Russell Beegan, Owner: Yes, for the purpose of moving snow away.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent- So, this was done when they built the road?
Russell Beegan, Owner: Yes.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - Okay.
Mike Birmingham, GCC - It was probably done to prevent the road from erosion.
Paul Nelson, GCC - I do not think that an area so steep should have been filled.
Paul Nelson, GCC - They added the fill and the rip rap.
Paul Nelson, GCC – So, why widen the road again, when you had already had it widened?
Paul Nelson, GCC - I don’t understand this.
Russell Beegan, Owner - The idea was to widen the corner for the purpose of plowing.
Carl Shreder, GCC - The plan may not show the reality of work.
Carl Shreder, GCC – Well, let’s decide what we want to do from here.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - I don’t think it’s going to be an issue now with the entire rip rap there.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Anyone who has been there can see that it is a huge swamp there. I think we (the commission) should be very concerned about what we are allowing to go through with what has happened with the previous commission. It is already done but, I really have a problem with what he wants to do.
Carl Shreder, GCC - I feel it is an issue and because this was done incorrectly there is a reason to make sure it is done correctly, now.
Carl Shreder, GCC - The fire department didn’t indicate where the issue is. I can see that this is a narrow road and that it can be a safety issue because I have observed it my self.
Paul Nelson, GCC – The Conservation Commission that issued the OoC did condition it as a specific size and we should accept that.
Carl Shreder, GCC - How are we to compensate for this?
Carl Shreder, GCC – Rather, how blindly it may be on the plan, I have been out there and feel it is an issue. This is whether or not that this has already been an order.
Paul Nelson, GCC - They had accepted the road with those stipulations.
Carl Shreder, GCC - I don’t really understand why this is necessary.
Russell Beegan, Owner - I would remove the fill if you want but, you need to push the snow forward and if you get enough snow behind it it may be a problem. I needed enough room to avoid going off the road. The first year was difficult because my plow truck got stuck. I have a better way of navigating it now but, initially it was to give me little more room to get the snow pushed up there.
Paul Nelson, GCC - We’re not talking about the additional fill with rip rap. That isn’t what we’re talking about.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Can you remove the fill and pave?
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - I did want to add that they did comply with the stone bounds.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Do we want to have the fill removed?
Mike Birmingham, GCC - Isn’t the width going to be compromised?
Paul Nelson, GCC - We are not talking about the road width. The fill is not widening the road.
Russell Beegan, Owner - The plan can show whatever it wants but, the fill was put in place for the purpose of widening the road.
Paul Nelson, GCC - There is more filling over here (referencing the map). You are talking about this area right?
Russell Beegan, Owner – Right (looking at map).
Paul Nelson, GCC - Where is it, the area I’m talking about?
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - You can’t really see the area with the amount of dirt and growth. It is all covered in that area. It is hard to distinguish where it is.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Would you be willing to remove some fill?
Russell Beegan, Owner: Yes. Whatever you want me to do.
Mike Birmingham, GCC - So, you did this to prevent an accident with your plow?
Paul Nelson, GCC - We are talking about two different animals here.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - It’s there, and you have an area to put the snow.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - It would have been an issue at one point, where there would have been a state review.
John Bell, GCC - Is there growth over it now?
Russell Beegan, Owner: Yes, you really can’t see it now.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - They have taken care of the EO and they have complied with that so far but, if you want the fill to be removed, that’s another thing.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Do we feel comfortable with having the fill left?
Paul Nelson, GCC - The fill we are talking about is trivial.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - Well, you don’t plan on dumping the snow in that area there and with all the chemicals from the road and all.
Russell Beegan, Owner - All efforts will be made to comply with all regulations.
Paul Nelson, GCC - It appears to be a snow storage area.
Paul Nelson, GCC - You need to have a little bit more than what’s on this plan.
Russell Beegan, Owner - That will be on the plan.
Carl Shreder, GCC - So, we need to vote on a plan.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent – We need to remove this snow storage area as a designated area other wise it will be an issue later.
Carl Shreder, GCC - If a snow emergency then that’s okay.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - So, is everyone happy with those two stipulations on the new plan?
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - Just one plan?
Russell Beegan, Owner: Is the fill staying?
GCC/ All - Yes.
MOTION to cont June 28th @ 7:15PM Carl/ Paul All/UNAM
Parish Road
Reps., Owner: Paul Delrenzo
Paul DeLorenzo – We thought we had developed this area for our parents but they have since passed away. It was actually zoned as industrial B but, so that it shows, we are not trying to do anything else with the property. It is a beautiful property and it seems that there is not a lot of jurisdictional property. So, the point I want to make is that after reviewing the bylaws it was clear that the objective is to protect the wetlands and we are offering that.
Carl Shreder, GCC - That’s the job.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner - In my mind, it seems that there is “0” impact on the wetlands. We reduced the amount of units, we narrowed the road and we negotiated lot of things. I don’t think we are impacting the environment and I believe we are helping.
Carl, Rep. – As far as the planning board process the NOI will be submitted, again. The intent is to finalize. The last meeting we left with instructions related to open space and the open space was configured here were the idea was to tie in the streams with the open space idea we really couldn’t find that we could do that but, there would still be access to the southern half. We had briefly discussed the elevation on the site walk and the open space conservation land here doesn’t have direct access here and we could reconfigure this to make a meaningful access to this area. The other was comments from the Planning Board to make additional area and although this area will be designated as a private drive, there needed to be a small turn around. The PB wanted to
reduce this but, nothing that we could refer to on the NOI.
Carl, Rep. – Would we have to do any horizontal drilling?
Carl Shreder, GCC - Well, we will discuss that further but there hasn’t been an issue, yet.
Carl Shreder, GCC – What about irrigation wells?
Carl, Rep. - There is no residential, we had considered more drilling but, not with this size of an area.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Have you tested the water, yet?
Carl, Rep. – No.
Carl Shreder, GCC –No?
Paul Nelson, GCC – Really?
Carl, Rep. - It would be unusual to have any problems in this area.
Carl, Rep. - As far as, the variations that have been requested we have to comply.
Carl Shreder, GCC - So, you have access to potential trails and a foot bridge to more potential trails?
Carl, Rep. - There are actually existing trails there.
Paul Nelson, GCC - The houses in the front section of the lot are not going to have basements?
Carl, Rep. – No.
Carl, Rep. - This wasn’t recommended for these areas where the water table is so high.
Carl, Rep. - Right now those houses in these areas where they are higher in elevation.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Can you go over some of those plans that you had for the purpose of comparison?
Carl, Rep. - This consists of a short cul-de-sac and this is really limited as far as how many homes that can be built on this common drive.
Carl, Rep. - Well, if it were accessed as a common drive I don’t think the PB would agree. There aren’t any regulations associated with it.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent – So, the PB agreed to not paving the road?
Carl, Rep. - We don’t have to meet those standards for a common drive but, we felt it would be more reasonable to avoid waivers.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - What about other waivers from the town?
Carl, Rep. - Because of the cul-de-sac, we can’t really move this around.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - You could probably squeeze in one more house with a waiver.
Tom Howland, GCC – So, you would have 7 houses in total?
Carl, Rep. – Well, we could have one more here in the back.
Carl, Rep. - There are two different things here, where area restrictions will vary.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - Could you make a through road to go around that area where the cul- de-sac is? If you looped it through could you get your seven?
Carl, Rep. - Well, no not really.
Carl, Rep. - With this common drive, it does limit the actual right away in order to eliminate that cul-de-sac. If this cul-de-sac was moved it would still be in the right of way. It still is a paved road that can be accessible by the public. It might be possible to squeeze in another lot but I don’t think it’s a consideration because there really isn’t enough room here to make anymore adjustments.
Paul Nelson, GCC - What roadway conditions are we dealing with here?
Carl, Rep. - As part of the OSRD process what they want was a feasible representative. With the roadways and how we would have access, the front was probably shown here, but when we put the preliminary sub division was put together we considered a sub division roadway where the Con. Comm. variances would be considered and as to what could be eliminated.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Was lot #8 moved to meet the PB Zoning requirement?
Carl, Rep. – Yes, we had to meet their standards. They wanted us to make some kind of turn around so, that other vehicles can turn around to get out of this area. We reduced it to a common drive to allow more room here and 18’ is a standard for a fire lane. We only made this change and the reduction of the lot in the back once this cul-de-sac moves here it wouldn’t be reasonable.
Paul Nelson, GCC - You have some of these lots that require additional area but others don’t. Why is that?
Carl: Well, there are certain standards for these homes to have frontage.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Isn’t it the common drive frontage?
Carl, Rep. - The common drive and the roadways are two different things.
Carl, Rep. - There really weren’t any significant design issues with the board and we wanted to see were things were really going.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Any Questions?
Mike Birmingham, GCC - How much water crosses where that bridge is?
Carl, Rep. - If I remember right, we won’t really cross water.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - There are two channels that are really only about two feet wide.
Carl, Rep. - So, it will be just the actual post hole that will be put in for the actual bridge itself.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Do you think you would need more waivers if you would develop further back?
Carl, Rep. - I don’t think that there would be any grading. I don’t think you would necessarily have to do any grading.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Could you get all seven properties in?
Carl, Rep. - I don’t understand what you are asking?
Paul Nelson, GCC - I want a yes or no.
Carl, Rep. - I guess you could but because of the position of the cul-de-sac I can’t see that that is possible.
Paul Nelson, GCC – Okay, I just want to see that he would explain if it is possible.
Carl, Rep. - I think what are talking about are the wetlands and it appears that you are trying to ask what we are willing to give up on the lots here.
Paul Nelson, GCC - It is a question on whether that drive is going to be used.
Carl, Rep. - That is a deniable variance in the drive and what we have proposed will be some disturbance however, minimal and the trails are already there so we can provide access to those areas. The owner is willing to provide a substantial amount of mitigation.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - Wasn’t there a substantial amount of land for the open space? Here is the zone 2 and the open space area (referring to the map). So, the acre and a .25 are here and the rest of these green areas can be used under the commission’s regulations? Going back to our discussion; before the work is going to be in the no-disturb zone and there will be a 16’ grade for the driveway where minor work is to be done?
Charles Waters, GCC - The concerns over what is given back are really what we have in our jurisdiction, anyway. The land already is an area that is protected as uplands and is really good land. I think that the land, if given to the public, would be great and that would be what we want to obtain. I do however; disagree with the amount of disturbance in that area with respect to that very sensitive area there.
John Bell, GCC - I feel the same.
Mike Birmingham, GCC - There isn’t a lot of uplands there and I don’t feel that there is enough upland to feel content with this.
Mike Birmingham, GCC - There really isn’t upland there.
Paul Nelson, GCC - I agree with Mike on that.
Carl Shreder, GCC - It is a small jurisdiction area.
Mike Birmingham, GCC - As you add more houses the impact will become more of a problem.
Carl Shreder, GCC - I think if they had to move the cul-de-sac to the back they would have to do more significant work and this would cause even more disturbance.
Carl, Rep. - It is a reasonable assumption that this will get reduced.
Carl Shreder, GCC - I don’t think it is like the side of a mountain but it’s hilly.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner - After the site walk, I had met with my lawyer and it is felt that we are definitely improving the area.
Carl Shreder, GCC - What type of improvements is you really making?
Carl, Rep. - It is my belief that the DEP would like us to pave the road to restrict sediment erosion.
Carl Shreder, GCC - We are charged with prohibiting developing in those areas.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner - It seems to me, that we are being totally reasonable about what we are doing. I think it totally reasonable.
Carl Shreder, GCC - We have to be considerate of what those impacts are going to be and that is why we discourage building in such close proximity of a BVW.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner- I feel that it wouldn’t be an issue.
Carl Shreder, GCC - I think we have some improvements but, there are some concerns.
Paul Nelson, GCC - The concern is what can be put in there later.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - This is not a town road, this is a dirt road.
Carl Shreder, GCC - We need to give them some information on what we think on this.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Are there other parcels of land where the applicant can re-design? So, we have some room to change.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner - I don’t understand mitigation. What does this mean?
Carl, Rep. - The open space is substantial in order to avoid those variances.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Where there is still concern over how the pollution from the developed properties will flow into the waterway we must be considerate of that.
Carl Shreder, GCC – We must consider the numbers of the houses that can effect the variance you are looking for.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner- So, how do the number lots that we build affect it?
Carl Shreder, GCC – If there are more lots, then there will be more homes and this will increase the amount of impact.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - I would like to see an expansion on river front and this is still being filed as a 44-unit construction and needs to be filed correctly, sooner rather than later, in order to get comments from the state. It is fair to have this go out to the abutters.
Carl Shreder, GCC - I really want to minimize the impact as well but, I can see that the possible donated land is a useable area.
Tom Howland, GCC - I am still unconvinced.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - You are still talking about protecting a very important area.
Carl Shreder, GCC – There is some consideration to down size this project.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - It sounds like there needs to be huge trade off here because of all of the waivers.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner – (Made comment regarding his lawyer’s comments on there being no impact to the wetlands.)
Paul Nelson, GCC - Anytime you build you will have impact.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner: I feel that we are really proving our commitment to show that we are trying to make this a win-win situation.
Carl Shreder, GCC - The burden is on you to prove your willingness to work with us and meet us half way.
Scott Edwards, 9 Parish Road – I would like to talk about this because they are giving this land to the town and this is a great area where this drive way is. If you come through here, it is all wetland. The owner transfers this to the town and we pay for it, but whether it is actually usable is another thing and this time of year you would be just walking through the wetland. The town isn’t going to want people to go out here.
Tom Howland, GCC - Have you walked in that area?
Scott Edwards, 9 Parish Road – Yes.
Tom Howland, GCC - What about the proposed area?
Scott Edwards, 9 Parish Road -Yes, its very wet.
Carl Shreder, GCC - I don’t know but, I don’t really think that it is really that wet.
Scott Edwards, 9 Parish Road - Someone should be paying for this and it shouldn’t be the residents. It isn’t land that the town would use anyway. If it were usable then I could see how we can have a win-win situation. Let’s see if we can get land that is actually usable.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner - If the lots were larger then people will be able to make big money. To me, it doesn’t affect the wetlands and it is the value to me. Why isn’t it to anyone else?
Scott Edwards, 9 Parish Road - At least give the public a chance to see the property so they have a fair chance to make decisions on this. I think they should be able to walk out there to see the area that is proposed.
Carl Shreder, GCC - We can not allow the public to go onto private property.
Carl Shreder, GCC - I can see lands in other towns are a swamp but what you want to do with it is left up to your perception.
Scott Edwards, 9 Parish Road - I just don’t see what we are considering here. If you think that we could put one or two homes and it work out, that’s not true.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner - I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t want to have this land donated, but if you want to have conservation restrictions on it we are open to this.
Carl Shreder, GCC - If the town accepts them, it should be useable land with public access.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner - That is why we came back with this new plan.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Are we willing to accept more land?
Carl Shreder, GCC - It sounds like that one house is going to be a variance and we could certainly get more land.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Are we interested in more land or what?
Paul Nelson, GCC - We have to decide what we are going to allow on that back property. The question is how far do we want this to go with the cul-de-sac?
Carl Shreder, GCC - It seems that there may be some variances and that is a way out with reference to moving.
Carl, Rep. - The commission has to understand that when the owner is forced to reduce the lots then the owner would have to take an economic loss.
Carl, Rep. - It seems to me that the commission should consider that the financial loss be big.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Is that where we are with the one house?
Mike Birmingham, GCC - I think the one house in the back, for now, and keep things the same up front.
Carl Shreder, GCC – Does anyone else have any other comments?
Carl Shreder, GCC - We need to give them direction, are we interested in the land?
Paul Nelson, GCC - I think the uplands are better.
Tom Howland, GCC - I agree, if it’s not upland I don’t want it.
Paul Nelson, GCC - If lot #8 went away there would be a tremendous amount of upland.
Paul DeLorenzo, Owner - I’m confused more than before.
Carl Shreder, GCC - We agreed that the front portion is build able and perhaps something might have to happen in the back. It does need improving.
Carl, Rep. - I will have a plan that we are feeling pretty confident on.
Carl Shreder, GCC – So, a preliminary plan could be delivered before the next meeting?
Paul Nelson, GCC - Would you want to wait till you have more guidance or information?
Carl, Rep. – Yes.
MOTION to cont June 28th @ 8:30PM Tom/Carl All/UNAM
11 Martel Way
Reps., Mary Rimmer & Mike Juliano
Mary Rimmer, Rep. -We did have a site visit with a 75’ buffer and the previous plan was beyond that. The change was for the proposed walk way here through the wetland and an open box culvert. We didn’t get a response from NHESP but I think we are in pretty good shape with them. I took pictures May 21st and don’t think this area retains any water.
Mike Birmingham, GCC – So, the entire property is buried?
Mary Rimmer, Rep. – Yes.
Mary Rimmer, Rep. – Over here there is gravel (referencing the map) and the initial size was 9,000sf and we went down on that by a considerable amount.
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - This is the best we can do at this point as we have worked and worked on this.
Paul Nelson, GCC - It looks as though the hill is higher that the retaining wall here.
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - Where?
Paul Nelson, GCC - It almost looks as though the wall itself is lower than the area.
Mike Juliano, Rep. The hill is staying the exact same elevation.
Paul Nelson, GCC - If you had pushed it back a bit, it may have allowed more room.
Carl Shreder, GCC - What is the surface land there?
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - It is land that will be maintained.
Carl Shreder, GCC – So, you are waiting for the word from NHESP?
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - Yes. We should be all set then.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - You could do a no-cut boundary, there, over the wall.
Carl Shreder, GCC - What is the proposal for the snow removal?
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - There will be a snow storage area.
Paul Nelson, GCC - As long as it isn’t being pushed over the wall.
Paul Nelson, GCC - Outside of the wall area, is there going to be grading?
Mike Juliano, Rep. – No.
Paul Nelson, GCC – So, there will be no grading outside the wall area?
Mary Rimmer, Rep. – No.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - You could suggest a replanting plan where the retaining wall is. I’m surprised that the silt fence isn’t closer there.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Why can’t the building there be smaller?
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - It will not be able to function as proposed.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Will the commission approve the waivers and demonstrate a hardship?
Carl Shreder, GCC - Can we do an off-site mitigation?
Carl Shreder, GCC - In a case like this there isn’t much more we can do.
Paul Nelson, GCC - I think we have pushed pretty hard, now.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Does anyone see any major issues?
Tom Howland, GCC - If mitigation is the way, I’ll go along with it.
Carl Shreder, GCC - The question is rather it will have significant impacts and I think this applicant has demonstrated hardship. I’m moving to allow the plan with the stipulation of hardship.
Paul Nelson, GCC - With what mitigations?
Carl Shreder, GCC – Perhaps, it’s not taking over entirely but to help in maintaining it.
Carl Shreder, GCC - How much money are we taking about?
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - I think it was $10,000.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Are we going have a problem with delineation?
Steve Przyjemski, Agent – Yes.
Carl Shreder, GCC - Should we extend the delineation?
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - It is highly unusual.
Mary Rimmer, Rep. – Yes, but we are extending the application process a lot.
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - I believe the wetlands are changing.
Carl Shreder, GCC - I do not want everyone coming in wanting extensions and extend an entire year.
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - That’s okay.
Mike Birmingham, GCC - We have to accept the project but not the wetland line.
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - I don’t understand.
Carl Shreder, GCC - It is so that no one else can use the same plan.
Mike Birmingham, GCC - It is the intention to have the door closed on this.
Mary Rimmer, Rep. - I think it would accessible to do the cash donations.
Steve Przyjemski, Agent - I don’t want to move forward until NHESP.
MOTION to accept NOI mitigation at $10,000, contingent on wetland, demonstrated hardship
for 11 Martel Way.
Carl/ Mike All/unam (Tom Opposed)
MOTION to close. Carl/ John All/ Unam
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