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BOARD OF SELECTMEN
SPECIAL MEETING AUG. 29, 2000
TOWN OFFICE BUILDING 6:00 P.M.
First Selectman Patton called the meeting to order at 6:01 P.M. with the following in attendance: Selectmen Ennis & Knight, C. Csiki, M. Eldredge, R. Hisey,
J. Kasacek, J. Lewis, T. Millix, A. & G. St. Louis, J. Semmlerock and reporter.
SELECTMAN ENNIS MOVED TO WARN A TOWN MEETING FOR THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 7, 2000 AT 7:00 P.M. AT THE TOWN HALL TO COVER THE BUSINESS RAISED BY THE PETITION REGARDING RECONSTRUCTION OF ROUTE 320 & HANCOCK ROAD. FOR THE QUESTION ON THAT PETITION.
Selectman Knight seconded the motion.
Discussion
Selectman Ennis commented that since CGS section 7-1 says the Board of Selectmen shall call a Town Meeting when presented with a petition that is not unlawful, improper or frivolous. There is also a section that says the Selectmen are compelled to call the Town Meeting if they believe the business is lawful, proper and not frivolous. Selectman Knight commented that the Town Attorney has a conflicting opinion; she feels it seems to intrude into the budget process; it is something that should be done by elected officials. There is that to consider. First Selectman Patton commented that there are 2 questions, if you feel this is a proper question, you feel the question to expend legitimate funds is a question for Town Meeting, not the appropriation but the expenditure, there is a difference. He does
not believe it is. We are saying Town Meeting is the form to approve expenditures of funds. The second question is that if they are going to vote on a Board of Selectmen project, we as a Board probably should have one. If you are going to a Town Meeting you will want to know what the project is that you are voting for or against, the expenditure of $30,000/$40,000. He thinks that the Board should have something to present for people to vote on, unless we just want them to vote on the abstract of whether we should expend it. Selectman Ennis asked how would you propose to implement that? He would be content to read the proposal written to the Board of Finance, to give a general sketch of what you had in mind. We have a precedent, from the last Town Meeting, of changing the wording of the petition proposal; we can do that there.
SPECIAL MEETING -2- AUG. 29, 2000
First Selectman Patton asked if Selectman Ennis was saying that we say here is the proposal, reconstruction of Route 320 & Hancock Rd. line of sight problem, do you want to do this? Because this is saying do you want to expend $30,000/40,000. If people go to Town Meeting they will say what is the project? The Board does not have a project, this is a proposal that the First Selectman is talking about. Do you want to bring that forward to go to a Town Meeting? Selectman Ennis commented that to describe the expenditure that the meeting was called to discuss as being intended to remove the rise at the intersection of Hancock Road & Route 320 would bring it into focus. First Selectman Patton commented that he planned to do that at the Public Hearing but this is a very specific
question about a project, that the Town Meeting is determining whether to expend money or not. Do you also feel that the expenditure of funds is a legitimate question for the Town Meeting? Selectman Ennis said yes, he found no statute that prohibited that, he thinks the Town Meeting can insert itself. Selectman Knight commented that the actual effect of the Town Meeting is whether or not to fund a line item the Board of Finance created. First Selectman Patton commented that that is not what this is, this does not authorize that. Selectman Knight commented that it has the effect of do we or do we not fund that line item. First Selectman Patton said no, it would not effect that action at all. Selectman Knight commented that then you have a line item sitting there with money in it that the Town Meeting either approved or denied. First Selectman commented that the question asks if you should spend from the road fund, that has noting to do
with the Board of Finance. Creating a line item is an action the Board of Finance can take and has noting to do with this action, this is saying should we take it out of the road fund. It is the town attorney’s opinion, and mine, that the Town Meeting is not the place to approve expenditures, Town Meeting approves appropriations. You have a budgetary process; a process for appropriating money out of the general fund, once that’s done the expenditures of the funds is overseen by the Board of Finance and other elected officials. Selectman Ennis commented that normally that’s the way. First Selectman Patton commented that if you don’t want to make a decision on this and want to go to Town Meeting to make a decision, that’s your decision. I think you are opening up a new chapter on how to fund your expenditures and that is a dangerous precedent by saying that the Town Meeting is a legitimate form to determine
expenditures. Selectman Ennis commented that if it is not unlawful, improper or frivolous. If the Town Meeting said you could not expend money for office supplies, without a specific promise to buy certain things, that is frivolous and he would not go to Town Meeting. First Selectman Patton asked how about if we wanted to spend money to hire a janitor or on the roads. Selectman Ennis commented that if you wanted to spend money on a road for regular Public Works maintenance activity, he would consider that improper. First Selectman Patton commented that now you are saying the Town Meeting is legitimate for certain expenditures. You are going to make the distinction each time whether the Town Meeting is appropriate or not.
SPECIAL MEETING -3- AUG. 29, 2000
Selectman Ennis commented of course, he thinks this one is proper because at the time of the budget appropriation most people would not think we would be spending money on a state road. They have the right to insert themselves between the budget and that expenditure. First Selectman commented that you are opening yourself to a dangerous precedent, that’s why you have a Public Hearing. The decision making is up to us as a Board, it’s up to the Board of Finance to expend the funds; that’s who is authorized to expend the funds. Selectman Ennis commented that the Town Attorney’s letter on the previous Town Meeting petition states that if you could find no law prohibiting it then it is a legal question. First Selectman Patton commented that she does not say this is an
illegal question, she is saying it is an improper question. The Board of Selectmen can call a Town Meeting. If you want to do that I think you are creating a dangerous precedent but that is your decision. Selectman Knight commented that he thinks there are precedents here on this side where you go through the various items that constitute Town expenditures, one of which is the Capital Improvement Program. $10,000 for carpeting classrooms is listed in the CIP and voted on; spending money to reconstruct a State road is not a capital improvement. That’s the reason we are here, there is outcry that this is not a normal budgetary item, you are adding a line item to reconstruct a state road and it wasn’t there when we went to approve the budget. There is the impression that you are dancing to get this funded instead of going and making this as part of the CIP not something that comes up in 3 weeks. First Selectman Patton commented
that it has been 3 months or longer. It was an opportunity, not foreseen, to take care of a couple of problems, if the Board wants to put it into the normal cycle, there is no problem. Selectman Knight commented that we were never told we could do that; the BOF created and is funding that line item. First Selectman Patton commented that he told the BOF that this would require the Board of Selectmen’s approval, they just opened a door, we can or cannot do it. If you want to put this through the normal cycle, do that. I think it should be done but if you as a Board don’t want to do it you can say no we don’t think it should be done. Selectman Ennis commented that the petition came in before it came up at a Board meeting and the people say we want to pass on this. If we had brought it up for a vote first I would have voted for it, independent of situating the buses up there, but the petition spoke first. There are those
that believe this should have been done a long time ago and there are those who are up in arms about spending money on a State road. First Selectman Patton commented that’s why these meetings are open and why the Public Hearing was a good idea. Also part of doing that project was to have the rent money from Laidlaw, that’s a whole new equation that’s thrown out the door. Selectman Knight asked if Laidlaw would pay rent for using the Town Office Building parking lot? First Selectman Patton asked how I sign a contract that says we will keep you there from week to week, I can’t sign a contract in good faith for that. Selectman Ennis asked why is that an issue? First Selectman Patton commented that the BOF included the rent from Laidlaw for the reconstruction, that was one of the beauties of this, the fact that we would be able to get unanticipated revenues to help for an existing problem, it was an elegant solution.
SPECIAL MEETING -4- AUG. 29, 2000
If that revenue source does not exist the whole question is moot. Selectman Ennis commented that it was an elegant solution but unfortunately there are about 5 issues I had with it. First Selectman Patton commented that he understands, but if the rent doesn’t come through then the road doesn’t happen, the money to do the road was coming from that revenue source. J. Kasacek asked for clarification on where the rent money was going and was told it was going for the reconstruction of the state road. Most of the material to build the parking lot is there. M. Eldredge commented that the whole petition started because there was no line item for this project when we voted on the budget, no one considered spending that money on a State road. If you are spending money on a town road
he doesn’t think they have the right to petition. No one thought money would be spent on a State road, people have the right to vote on this money. First Selectman Patton commented that this is very much a Public Works project because we are not reconstructing a road for the sake of reconstructing a road, we are doing it to take care of a line of sight issue for a Town road. Selectman Knight commented that we should have the Town Meeting and then we can research it after. He feels uncomfortable refusing the petition.
A. St. Louis commented that there is a Public Hearing to see if the people are for or against it, the Board of Selectmen could vote after the Public Hearing, why are we having a Town Meeting.
M. Eldredge commented that the people can vote at Town Meeting. First Selectman Patton commented that you are not voting to appropriate money, this is a process to vote whether the Board of Selectmen can expend money out of the Public Works fund. Discussion followed regarding the difference between appropriating and expending money. P. Latincsics commented that he thought a Town Meeting would be welcome to get input from the townspeople. First Selectman Patton commented that’s what a Public Hearing is for. Selectman Ennis commented that he welcomes the public, if the public feels it has enough knowledge and opinion on an issue, that it wants to take back, in electing him he feels like this responsibility has been delegated to him, and if on this one the public says they want to sign
for themselves he thinks that is fine. If he has any concern, if the issue doesn’t pass the test of the statute then he is not obliged to call the meeting. If he calls a meeting under circumstances where he thinks an unreasonable position may be forced by a highly coalesced group of people whose interest may not be all representative of the town and who might try to recruit people to come to the Town Meeting then he has the option to make it a referendum. The openness of the process does not bother him. J. Lewis commented that the Town Attorney said it was not something the town should be voting on. A Public Hearing would be the proper way to go. You have Selectmen who do not want to make a decision, they can let the town make the decision at Public Hearing and vote according to what comes out of the Public Hearing. It is not in the purview of the legislative body of the Town Meeting vote but it is for the Selectmen to vote on. If the Board refuses to follow legal advise
time after time, he is upset that we are spending money on the attorney’s opinion. Possibly they should look at hiring a new attorney that they trust.
SPECIAL MEETING -5- AUG. 29, 2000
Selectman Knight commented that was done the last time. You can buy attorney’s advice, here’s the money, tell me what I want to hear and if they don’t tell you what you want to hear you can go find another one, eventually you will hear what you want to hear. J. Lewis commented that if you went to Town Meeting to do something and the Town Meeting said yes we want this and you came back here and voted against it, you created a precedent where you had the decision to make and not Town Meeting. Whose decision stands? Selectman Knight commented that he is confident that if a case gets made that perhaps this is something a Town Meeting really shouldn’t do, we can always adjourn without doing anything. Selectman Ennis commented that he would really like to know the answer to
that question, he would like an authority cited for that, he would like if an attorney is going to render an opinion, that he is erudite. In retrospect, he does not think it is appropriate to ask an attorney’s opinion. If we study what these things mean, whether or not these test apply or not, we can decide. The attorney alludes to OPM, but says nothing about what she found or didn’t find there, she cites case law but says little about what she found there, she refers to CGS regarding the budget process, she said the opposite in her previous letter. It is not that he discounts the opinion of lawyers but when they contradict themselves then he does not think the advice is particularly valuable. Upon receiving another petition he would make a motion not to send it to the attorney. Selectman Knight commented that having some experience with this he would agree. Deal with the effect afterwards, unless it is something obvious.
Selectman Ennis commented there are places in the CGS that require you to get the advice of an attorney but this isn’t one of them. T. Millix asked the First Selectman to expand a little on the dangerous precedent, looking at the worse case scenario. First Selectman commented that there is a process by which money is appropriated and a process by which money is expended and it varies from fund to fund. The problem he is seeing is that we are now saying the Town Meeting is the legitimate form for determining expenditures, no matter what budget it is, not appropriations but expenditures, there is a big difference between the two.
A. St. Louis asked if you are leaving it up to the Board of Selectmen to decide if a petition is acceptable, if you like the project, you could say we don’t need a Town Meeting. If you don’t like the project you could say we need a Town Meeting. You are setting a precedent, if anybody comes to the Board with a petition signed by 20 taxpayers that says we want to vote on something, they should be allowed to do it. Selectman Ennis commented that the statute says we are compelled to warn Town Meeting if we reasonable believe it is lawful, proper and not frivolous, so like it or now he would have the Town Meeting. C. Csiki commented that one of the purposes of this exercise has something to do with democracy, you can talk all night long, it is very clear
that the project to use town funds on a state road was never discussed by the Selectmen never discussed by the Board of Finance and never presented to the townspeople. The dangerous precedent would be for the Board of Selectmen to ignore this and do what they choose. The money was not approved in the Public Works budget to do Route 320.
SPECIAL MEETING -6- AUG. 29, 2000
He supports the 320 project but the petition is proper, he doesn’t think it sets a precedent, to do otherwise sets a bad precedent. If you are going to err, err on the side of democracy. The Board of Selectmen only has as much authority and power as the people give you. This cost nothing to call the Town Meeting. J. Lewis brought up PZC. What if Mr. Cobb brought a petition that the Town would not pay for an attorney to be involved; or another one on Luchon Rd. with Wetlands, a petition to cut off Town funds for the attorney. The money was approved by referendum already. C. Csiki responded that if there was a petition to stop funding matters involving litigation, the town attorney would rule that it is improper. Mr. Csiki asked to be convinced that the townspeople
approved spending money to do Route 320. First Selectman Patton commented that the money is appropriated but does not say which road. There are funds that are available that are certainly up to the discretion of the spending authority. Money is appropriated when you take them out for specific projects like LOCIP or Capital Reserve items. C. Csiki commented that you are telling me that taxpayers would not object, be surprised and would not be upset at spending town funds on a state road. First Selectman Patton commented that he does not know, that’s why we have Public Hearings. M. Eldredge asked if the Board of Education spent $50,000 on Ashford schools, would it be legitimate? First Selectman Patton commented that it is your discretion. J. Lewis commented that there is a difference here, you are talking about spending town funds on something within the boundaries of the town and it is directly affecting the people of our town. It directly affects Hancock Road and safety.
R. Hisey commented that the petition should be honored. The voters passed the budget, with the understanding that the money would be spent for the town, on town property and on the town’s children. Route 320 is almost a town road and we use it but it is a state road and this should be cleared up. Let the town vote on this. This is beyond what the voters’ expectation was at the time we approved the budget. He would bet it would pass. G. St. Louis asked the Board if at the Public Hearing 75% of the people said they did not want to spend the money would any of you go any further and try to spend the money on the state road, how would you handle that? Selectman Knight commented that Public Hearing has no vote; it is for the presentation of information. G. St. Louis asked, but as a Selectman would you vote to spend the money? Selectman Knight commented that it depends on what the arguments are that arise at Public
Hearing, it is not a popularity contest. At Planning & Zoning public opinion could be overwhelming against a certain project but the project meets the guidelines of the town and is therefore approved. A Public Hearing is for the gathering of information. G. St. Louis asked if it would have any effect on you. Selectman Knight commented that he is not saying it would not have an impact, information is presented and you get input but it is an informal poll. A. St. Louis commented that what Selectman Knight said is a prime example why you have a Board of Selectmen, to make those decisions. It seems you don’t want to make the decision and it is in your purview to do it.
SPECIAL MEETING -7- AUG. 29, 2000
Certainly the majority of people in town elected you with the intentions that you are going to make decisions like this, make a reasonable decision with a reasonable amount of thought. Selectman Ennis commented that he objects to the name-calling, this portrayal of us as not being willing to make a decision. He is perfectly willing and able to make a decision and he has, his decision is to go to Town Meeting. It is a position that is being resisted vigorously by the party that has more elected officials than any other in town right now. Selectman Knight commented that the fact of the matter is that a legally satisfying number of people signed a petition to go to Town Meeting. He does not see any reason not to have this Town Meeting; there are reasons to have it. First Selectman Patton
commented that he would call the motion, which now reads:
SELECTMAN ENNIS MOVED THAT IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 7-1 OF THE CONNECTICUT STATE STATUTES THE BOARD CALL A SPECIAL TOWN MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 7, 2000 AT 7:00 P.M. AT THE TOWN HALL FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSE: SHOULD THE BOARD OF SELECTMEN EXPEND $30,000-$40,000 FROM THE TOWN OF WILLINGTON ROAD FUND TO RECONSTRUCT A PORTION OF ROUTE 320, A STATE ROAD?
Selectman Knight seconded the motion.
VOTE: 2 YES (ENNIS & KNIGHT) 1 NO (PATTON)
SELECTMAN ENNIS MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 7:03 P.M.
Selectman Knight seconded the motion.
VOTE: 3 YES (PATTON, ENNIS & KNIGHT) 0 NO
Respectfully submitted,
Mary Bowen
Secretary
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