Willington Housing Authority
60 Old Farms Road
Dec. 12, 2011 Meeting Minutes
Item 1 – Meeting called to order at 6:10 p.m. by Housing Authority Chair Robert Campbell.
Present: Chair Robert Campbell; Vice Chair Wilbur Gangaway; Treasurer Claudia D’Agata; member Laurel Millix; member Don Berg; architect Bill Crosskey; consulting engineer, W. Mark Gendron of Acorn Consulting Engineers; Recording Clerk Brenda Sullivan
Item 2 – Present to Speak: No member of the public was present to speak.
Item 5 – Old Business – Willington PZC approval
R. Campbell reviewed some of the discussion that took place at the Dec. 6, 2011 Planning and Zoning Commission public hearing on the senior housing plan. He listed a number of items the PZC asked to see on the maps, including a “low mow” strip around the buildings that needs to be maintained once a year; location of fuel tanks; and location of any centralized condensers.
R. Campbell also said the PZC would like the WHA to follow the engineer’s recommendation to change a drainage pipe from 24 inches to 30 inches. And the PZC also asked for notes describing the buildings’ sprinkler system, he said.
R. Campbell said the WHA would like a revised site plan to give to Willington Planning-Zoning/ Wetlands Agent Susan Yorgensen and to bring to the PZC.
D. Berg also noted that the PZC asked the maps to show the location of the construction entrance, and details about fire suppression, i.e. location of fire alarms.
Discussion of building materials followed.
Consulting engineer Mark Gendron said the foundation should be concrete because it is built into a slope, and the lower units are slab on grade. Excavation for the perimeter wall will be three feet below, with 8 inches of crushed stone and a plastic vapor barrier. The lower level will be mesh and pour, and insulated so the floor stays warm. He noted that the WHA could also choose to use “sleepers” – pieces of wood covered by insulation and wood flooring. This type of floor is easier on the feet than a concrete slab, he said. The decision is one of comfort vs cost, he said.
R. Campbell said the cost of a “sleeper” system/wood floor would probably be cost prohibitive and that he would rather see more insulation.
B. Crosskey said that if the foundation wall is properly insulated, the warmth from the earth beneath the concrete slab will keep it warm.
R. Campbell said proper insulation will separate the slab from the foundation walls – so that the outside cold isn’t transferred to the concrete floor.
B. Crosskey suggested that if a concrete floor presents a physical issue for a tenant, that tenant should be given an apartment on the upper level. He also estimated the cost of the “sleeper”/wooden floor system to be about $3 per square foot for a total of about $2,000.
D. Berg said he believes comfort is an important issue for the tenants who would be living in this housing. W. Gangaway agreed and said older people often have knee problems that could be aggravated by a concrete floor.
B. Crosskey said his firm usually designs with a “sleeper” system for senior housing. He suggested this system be put in the WHA plans now and remove it later if necessary because of cost considerations.
B. Crosskey also recommended the use of “zip panels” in which insulation is adhered to the plywood (for an R5 value). These panels also have waterproofing on the outside and a special tape for an air seal. He said they are more sturdy than Ty-vek.
R. Campbell asked what the cost difference would be.
W. Gangaway asked about the “zip panel’s” track record.
B. Crosskey said “zip panels” have been in use about five years. He said they are a simple solution for controlling thermal transmission and that there are labor savings.
R. Campbell asked if sprayed foam insulation might be another alternative.
B. Crosskey said this can be expensive, and that another alternative might be dense-pack fiberglass insulation. He added that his firm used the “zip panels” on a project in Meriden and they are in the middle of evaluating the project, so he would like to continue this discussion at the next meeting.
Talking about the upper apartments, B. Crosskey said there will be sound barriers between units and insulated floors. And the roof will be framed with wood trusses, with R-45 blown-in insulation.
D. Berg asked about raised-heel trusses because these mean there will be more insulation at the eaves. B. Crosskey said it would not be necessary.
There was discussion of proper ventilation of roofs.
B. Crosskey then discussed the material for windows. He said they will be double-hung and insulated, such as a 200 Series Anderson window and that from the inside, the windows would have the look of wood and would be easy to open and close.
R. Campbell said he was concerned with the interior finish, that maybe they should use the manufacturer’s interior painted finish. He said a vinyl new construction window would be OK, and noted that the Anderson pre-finished window carries a good warranty. He added that he didn’t think senior citizens would be causing damage to their windows.
D. Berg asked about fire separation. B. Crosskey said the units would have “one hour” walls. R. Campbell said the units don’t need full separation because there will be a sprinkler system.
Discussion followed about the height of the ceilings, i.e. if the main areas are 9 feet floor to ceiling, the bathroom and kitchen areas might be 8 feet in order to allow for overhead wiring and other mechanicals.
M. Gendron talked about electrical power for the units. He said each one will be metered for electricity, most likely outside, and there would be a separate meter for the mechanical room.
He also suggested a fan-coil system with hot water because heat is included in the rent. He discussed wall-mounted boilers. He said that in well-insulated units such a boiler uses 15-20 BTUs, and that the system could be set for “instantaneous” hot water.
R. Campbell asked what the cost difference would be between 6 units these boilers vs one storage system with a return loop.
M. Gendron said that with 6 showers and other water usage (i.e. laundry), the complex might need a small (50-gal) storage tank. He asked if there will be dishwashers in the units, and B. Campbell said probably not.
M. Gendron said that “instantaneous” hot water systems usually have a 2-4 gal. storage tank so that, for example, when someone washes his/her hands, it doesn’t trigger the boiler.
There was discussion of air handlers being installed in the ceiling. B. Crosskey said a fan blows air over coils filled with hot water. M. Gendron said there also would be one circulator pump and six condensing units outside – and that with this system, they can get a Level One rebate ($150 per ton) or about $200. He added that this is a directed split system for cool air.
R. Campbell asked if there is any cost benefit to sharing a condenser. M. Gendron said these systems aren’t set up for that.
Discussion of an emergency generator followed.
M. Gendron said a plug could be installed outside so that it would be possible to add a portable generator in the future, if desired.
D. Berg said the wiring could be done now and space left for a generator.
M. Gendron said it would require about 2kw per unit, and noted that they would need someone knowledgeable to come and turn the generator on correctly, to ensure proper load share.
R. Campbell said they could leave space in a room for a switch, as long as it’s properly wired.
M. Gendron said the code minimum is a 100 amp panel per dwelling unit.
W. Gangaway asked if it would be possible to rent a generator when needed, and just leave space in the design for it. M. Gendron said the problem is, during an emergency, everyone wants to rent one at the same time.
R. Campbell suggested the possibility of a propane-fueled standby generator, which he said is quieter.
W. Gangaway also suggested that if it’s decided to have a propane heating system, why not also have propane stoves.
M. Gendron said he would have to do some research on the BTU requirements, and it would need to be buried.
B. Crosskey said they would need to decide where these tanks would be buried. R. Campbell said, possibly in two locations between the units.
M. Gendron asked which end of the complex to locate the mechanical room. R. Campbell said he asked E. Peterson to box out a location. B. Crosskey said they can be put in parking lots.
M. Gendron suggested that variable speed gas furnaces are more efficient compared to condensing furnaces but they require a closet in each unit – they would need supply and return in each unit.
R. Campbell said these produce dry air, so there would have to be a way to increase humidity.
M. Gendron talked about Japanese air-to-air heat pumps, which are all electric.
B. Crosskey suggested considering solar panels.
D. Berg asked about the possibility of selling excess power back to the utility company.
R. Campbell asked about solar panels on the roof for hot water, to shed BTU’s off the boilers.
M. Gendron said the problem is with heat dissipation in the summer. He said systems he’s seen have 8,000-gal storage to make as much hot water as possible, to take advantage of the sun when it’s available. For Willington’s project, they could use a 119-gal tank and an “instantaneous” hot water system – which would pay for itself in 8 to 10 years. But he noted a senior housing complex doesn’t use as much water as multifamily housing.
R. Campbell said he might be surprised – that the Willington Woods project uses about four times the amount of hot water they’d estimated.
D. Berg said that in the future, they could go to an air-to-water unit, but that it doesn’t make sense now.
R. Campbell noted that the WHA is trying to make the buildings as “green” as possible.
M. Gendron suggested they could install six 1-kw panels.
B. Crosskey said that if they are going to go to the trouble of installing panels, they should do enough to get enough back.
M. Gendron said photovoltaics are easier than solar hot water – wiring costs less than piping – and the cost of photovoltaics keeps dropping.
B. Crosskey said some companies rent PV systems, which cuts upfront costs.
Concerning the best location for solar panels, B. Crosskey said the roofs on this project face southwest and southeast, and that the southwest orientation is the best. He said using a tracking system (which moves the panels to follow the light) doesn’t make sense with New England topography.
M. Gendron said southeast is better, because it’s cooler in the morning – but due south is best.
B. Crosskey said he would do more research about this.
D. Berg asked if it is possible to have gas clothes driers. M. Gendron said gas driers bring up code issues. Also, if they also want to use solar panels, there has to be some electric load.
There was discussion about lighting for the units.
M. Gendron said they will be using Energy Star fluorescents that use one-half to seven-tenths of a watt per square foot.
R. Campbell said he prefers ceiling-mounted light fixtures instead of outlets for lamps.
D. Berg suggested the use of micro inverters for the solar electric panels. He said they cost more but may be simpler.
B. Crosskey suggested that if they decide to use solar panels, maybe have one system and include (cost of electricity?) it in the rent.
R. Campbell said there could be one common meter and a transfer panel.
M. Gendron said if they decided to this, they would need a 400-amp single phase main panel with 60-amp feeders to each apartment (with gas stoves)
R. Campbell said he’d like to see the use of photovoltaics. He also asked if the panels are rented if the cost stays the same over the length of the lease, i.e. a 20-year lease.
D. Berg said one advantage of a single shared meter is that CL&P charges a $20.25 fee per meter.
R. Campbell said it’s important to consider the cost of power for the tenants because he wouldn’t want them to be afraid of turning up their thermostat when it’s cold.
B. Crosskey said they if you do a really good job on the building’s shell – i.e. good insulation – that alone saves money on energy costs. R. Campbell agreed.
B. Crosskey suggested the WHA spend more time talking about all of these options. M. Gendron said he will do a cost comparison of photovoltaics vs hot air coils. He said he needs to talk to a PV installer about such things as how much roof space is available/usable for PV on this project. He added that if the WHA wants to do air-to-air heat pump, they might want to consider a better wall, i.e. R26.
M. Gendron asked if the WHA is willing to have a blower-door test done in order to apply for CL&P (energy saving) credits. R. Campbell said in the (Willington Woods) project, they got enough money from Energy Star testing to buy an air conditioner (in a sleeve) for each unit.
There was discussion about plumbing and water conservation.
B. Crosskey suggested low-flow “but operable” toilets.
M. Gendron said gravity-toilets are much better and suggested 1.28 or 1.50
D. Berg said to go with whichever one gives the best flush.
M. Gendron said he could do the standard low-flow package.
D. Berg asked about running pipes between the floors and if there might be noise issues.
M. Gendron said the toilets won’t be located over other tenants’ living rooms.
R. Campbell suggested more insulation for the bifold wall.
M. Gendron discussed the water mains and a possible header system in each unit – perhaps in the closet where the washer/drier is – possibly do sidewall heads.
R. Campbell brought up the possibility of reorienting joists. Crosskey said the current distance (on the drawings) is 28 from front to back. R. Campbell asked if it would be better to reorient joists. M. Gendron said his preference is to drop the ceiling and use sidewall registers dropped into the bathroom and hallway.
R. Campbell asked about the kitchens. He suggested a direct soffit, so it can be boxed all the way down, so the floor-to-ceiling height would be 8 feet all the way across (the room) and all the living areas would be 9 feet.
M. Gendron said they would have to find space on the second floor for fan coils. R. Campbell asked why not drop in the bathroom?
D. Berg asked, if they put in the soffit in the kitchen, can it be put in there.
B. Crosskey said the idea of 9-foot ceilings on the lower level is to make the units brighter.
W. Gangaway noted that sufficient closet space is always important to tenants.
M. Gendron said on the first floor the air handlers can be put in the ceiling; in a closet, it’s 18 inches deep nd 20 inches wide, with an angle coil in the bottom.
D. Berg said it’s better wide and stubby and up high where no one can touch it. He asked why no antifreeze? M. Gendron said you lose efficiency.
There was discussion about the hood over the stoves and whether to vent it outside. M. Gendron said it could go up through the floor (from the lower units) with a fire damper. D. Berg said he’d like to see something other than the types that recirculate the smoke and grease.” B. Crosskey said venting would cost about $500 a unit. R. Campbell said he is comfortable with a charcoal filter vs ducting.
B. Crosskey asked if the WHA wants garbage disposals in the units. R. Campbell said no.
There was discussion about the accessibility of the units.
B. Crosskey said the design is Type A, which includes grab bars in the shower.
R. Campbell raised the question of having tubs in some units. C. D’Agata said the WHA had a discussion of tubs vs showers when planning Willington Woods. She said she likes the walk-in/roll in shower.
M. Gendron said they would install a 3x5 foot shower with a “collapsible dam” that accommodates a wheelchair (it folds down to allow the chair to roll over, and then pops up to keep water from running out of the shower onto the floor). He said these shower units come with a fold-down seat and grab bars.
B. Crosskey said the WHA should decide whether they want this kind of system or would they rather have a shower with no lip and a ceramic tile floor (which can be expensive).
R. Campbell said he prefers the collapsible dam. B. Crosskey said it could, over time, cause a wood floor to rot. C. D’Agata said she also prefers the collapsible dam.
B. Crosskey also suggested that in the lower-floor units, the shower could be recessed into the slab so it would be “roll in” accessible – if there floor is not constructed with “sleepers.” Or with “sleepers” it can be built up. D. Berg suggested “sleepers” could be used in the rest of the apartment, just not in the bathroom, to accommodate the recessed shower.
B. Crosskey said he would do more research into the size of the shower – whether it would be 5x5 if they use the collapsible dam model, or 3x5 if it’s flush with the floor.
There was discussion about the need for a call-for-aid light.
M. Gendron said this could be a dome light outside each apartment which would be visible to other neighbors if it was used. There would be a pull cord in the bathroom and bedroom that would activate the light and a bell, instead of installing a hardwired system.
R. Campbell said he likes the dome-light because it will help emergency workers to find the specific unit where help is needed.
D. Berg asked about emergency lighting.
R. Campbell said they might want a power-out light in the living room. B. Crosskey noted that if there’s a prolonged outage, that light would be on 24/7.
There was discussion about whether to install a hose bib to allow tenants to access water for such things as watering their outdoor plants. R. Campbell said one could be installed to run from the mechanical room. M. Gendron said there could be a valve in the mechanical room so it can be shut off during the winter. He also noted there will be outside electrical receptacles on the units’ patios.
There was discussion about closet lights.
L. Millix, C. D’Agata and D. Berg said bedroom closets need lights. WHA members also said they prefer a regular door vs a bifold door. R. Campbell said the washer/drier area also needs a light. But he said he’d like some kind of system so that the closet light cannot be left on when not needed. B. Crosskey said there’s a motion-detection system (or occupancy sensor) that turns the light on when you open the door (and would shut off, when no one is there).
B. Crosskey said there will be lights over the sink and the center of the room in the bathrooms.
D. Berg asked if there will be accessible lever faucets. M. Gendron said his company does do those.
B. Crosskey said, code requirements are 10 percent of the units in the complex need to be fully accessible – given 24 units, this means 3 would have to meet this requirement, and the rest would be Type A accessible.
There was discussion about where these 3 fully-accessible units would be in the complex. B. Crosskey suggested one in the middle and two on the ends, all on the lower level. He said they have to be distributed proportionate to the rest of the units. He suggested 4, instead of 3, full-accessible units, with 2 small units and 2 large units. He said the units are actually very similar, except for the sinks and grab bars.
R. Campbell suggested putting one in each building on the lower level.
R. Campbell reviewed the information he needs from M. Gendron and R. Campbell, and asked to have maps he can put up for the public to view at Town Hall.
R. Campbell said he is waiting to see the minutes from the PZC hearing to see what the motion to approve, with conditions, says specifically. D. Berg asked how the PZC approval affects the start of construction. R. Campbell said Eric Peterson needs to understand all of the PZC’s conditions, and that a bid package needs to be developed.
R. Campbell also said Sue Yorgensen made an agent decision that the plans do not need to go for wetlands commission approval because the project is not in the wetlands; it is within a regulated area.
There was brief discussion of the process for delivering checks from D. Berto to the DECD.
Item 6 – New Business – none.
Item 3 – Treasurer’s Report – C. D’Agata reported an expenditure of $63.80 for a backup recorder purchased by D. Berg for meetings, and that the current balance is $5,844.65
Item 4 – Approval of Minutes – The Oct. 17, 2011 minutes were accepted as corrected. The corrections include: All references to Christina B. Mailhos should be as First Selectman; correction to two instances where Mailhos is spelled incorrectly; sentence should read, “E. Peterson reported that the Town Engineer Jacobsen reviewed the plans and had some minor questions…” and subsequent references to (Yorgensen/Jacobsen?) should be Jacobsen; in discussion of Federal Home Loan Bank, “R. Campbell said Theo Knoll, who they dealt with at the Federal Home Loan bank….,” last sentences in that paragraph should read, “T. Knoll was their point person at that time. Now it is a new person”; correct a misspelling of R. Campbell in this sentence, “R. Campbell
said he talked with D. Berto about several questions, including using ACCESS for property management…”;
The Nov. 14, 2011 minutes were tabled for review at the January 9, 2012 meeting.
Item 7 – Correspondence – A census survey for municipal committees – R. Campbell said he would complete this. A copy of Waterwell Journal.
Item 8 – The meeting adjourned at 8:50 p.m. The next meeting will be Monday, Jan. 9, 2012.
Respectfully submitted, Brenda Sullivan, Recording Secretary
Dec. 22, 2011
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