TOWN OF OLD SAYBROOK
Harbor Management Commission
302 Main Street • Old Saybrook, Connecticut 06475-1741
Telephone (860) 395-3123 • FAX (860) 395-3125
SPECIAL MEETING – SEPTEMBER 19, 2011
1. Call to order Chairman Ray Collins called the Special Meeting of the Old Saybrook Harbor Management Commission to order at 7:05 p.m.
2. Roll Call
Ray Collins, Chairman
Les Bowman, Secretary
David Cole
George Wall
Dick Goduti
Scott Mitchell, Dock Master
Keith Nielsen, Docko, Inc.
David Freed, GNCB
Larry Bonan, Director Public Works
Carol Manning, Selectman
2 members of the public
3. Ferry Dock - Guests - Keith Nielsen, DOCKO, Inc. and David Freed, GNCB
Regarding stabilization of Ferry Dock, permitting, repairs, STEAP Grant, other related topics
Ray Collins introduced the project as a $ 250,000 grant with some funding perhaps by the commission and the Town to make the dock stable and safe.
David Freed and Keith Nielsen were introduced.
David Freed began by describing his efforts to get some subsurface information.
3 test borings were performed, 2 went down 50-60 feet
Summary of test borings – some 13-14 foot of fill and silt
He reviewed his written report referencing the drawing of dock base – elevation at dock is at 4; + 3 in some area wall is made of squared stone and behind wall loosely placed rubble. He notes that this area will continue to settle because of the organic soils even with sheathing and fill and will bear watching in the future.
When GNBC came into the project they came up with some suggestions for short term
repair (5-10 year program for stabilization)
Short term solution – no dredging (dredging would cause stability problems)
Long term solution – drive some sheathing and then some dredging could be done
Possibly also drive some piles and short sheathing
Could excavate stone walls and add concrete
David Freed notes that to dredge around entire dock, need to sheathing around whole dock. Just dredging one area the Commission could sheath one area.
Keith Nielsen states the cost to dredge is approximately $ 30 - $ 35 a yard and because of Cadmium levels dredge spoils will have to go to central Long Island Sound, which is more expensive than going to New London. Keith the difference in Cadmium levels in the areas of North Cove and Ferry Dock is most likely because North Cove does not get all the river water runoff with pollutants that the actual river areas get. Keith mentioned the current dredge fee and dredge hurdles because DOCKO has a small dredge project currently going on across the river and it has enough Cadmium that the spoils are going to central Long Island. Keith points out that dredging will be the most expensive part of a project at Ferry Dock. He thinks the odds are the area that may need to be dredged might be soft so the “Commission could do
a small dredge and stabilize the docks.
There were questions asked about off site disposal of dredging material. Keith stated that he has had very poor success in getting communities in accepting muddy/soils with a lot of water because of their concerns for the makeup of the spoils and the environmental impacts those soils would have on the land fill areas.
Dick Goduti and Keith Nielsen both believe they are talking about less than 10,000 yards, maybe closer than 5,000. They think it could be dredged with a long armed excavator. Ray Collins asked if Keith thought DEEP would allow someone like the town to do the project as long as they are compliant with quality control guidelines. Keith thought they might.
Keith points out the fastest way to make the dock popular is to improve the docks. He suggests thinking carefully about getting the docks now, generate some income, and then the Commission could create some income for projects down the road. Keith suggests that if the dock does not pay for itself the commission will always be looking for grant money, etc.
Dick Goduti stated that the Commission has a commitment to the commercial fisherman but commercial fishing is becoming difficult to do on a paying business. He is concerned about the marinas next door dredging and the town making a hole and having the marina spoils filling the hole in. Dick believes that if one additional piling is added to each ramp the ramps would be more secure. He would rather take the money and put it into the structure and then put money on a slow basis into the docks and ramps.
Larry Bonan asked if any numbers were assigned to David Freed’s proposals. The sheet pile $ 2000 to $2500 per foot. Reconstructing the stone walls using the stones in place but rearranging them and adding additional fill, the cost could be as little as $ 500 per foot. Keith Nielsen believes most of the project could be done by rebuilding the wall.
Keith says when you get into municipal projects with STEAP grants you have to accept the lowest bidder and the lowest bidder may say that they can do the job but they really can’t.
The north wall is the wall which is the weakest link.
There is not permit for dredging.
Dick Goduti asked if concrete blocks could be used. Keith Nielsen replied that some concrete blocks have interlocking possibilities.
Dick Goduti asked if using the town crew is possible under the STEAP grant, that answer would require research with the State. But Keith Nielsen thought that this project is a legitimate municipal enhancement and The Commission could request a waiver from the state for the need to go out to bid. Keith also believes there are options for going forward but wants the Commission to be aware that there is still a lot of engineering that needs to go into this project to make the composite system work.
Dave Cole asked about redoing the pier. He asks if the silt will support the rebuild.
David’s concern is if you raise the grade too high it adds too much load. Low density fill material is available.
David reminded the Commission that Keith recommended that part of the work going forward include having a contractor involved at the beginning of the job as part of the design team. Keith suggests trying to get the waiver re: bidders.
The Commission then needs to identify what it wants most for the cash available. Keith can work with what the Commission likes and doesn’t like. This will include Larry Bonan in the whole project. Ray Collins asked if the town could drive sheet pile and Larry said he does not have the right equipment. Keith points out that there is a skill to driving sheet pile.
Les Bowman asked if they knew of any cases where a municipality used both local skilled and outside contractors and Keith was not familiar with any.
Carol Manning asked for clarification about whether the project could be an 8-10 year fix.
What to do next:
Go to STEAP folks first
Need to be sure of quality of concrete blocks if they are used; they will not last as long as stone. The salt water wears at it. Concrete blocks are made with left over concrete and so their makeup is not consistent throughout the block and may have inherent week spots.
Ray Collins asked if the town crew will have the time. Larry Bonan responded that in an election year he does not know what he will be asked to do in the future but currently they would have time.
Dick Goduti asked about how much time Keith would need and if he would need any money upfront. Keith responded he would need a couple of weeks. He believes the expired Army Corp permit may be renewable because the Commission has an open funded project and an open DEEP permit.
Keith suggests a conference call with Larry Bonan, Ray Collins, the DEEP representative and himself.
Keith feels that after tonight’s meeting and listening to the Commission and with Larry’s assistance they can finesse the project.
Task - Firm up the scheduled conference call (Larry Bonan will arrange)
After this evening’s discussions it was confirmed by David Freed that additional test pits were necessary and he felt that Larry Bonan and his crew could dig those pits.
Motion – Les Bowman moved to authorize Larry Bonan to do up to five additional test pits at the Ferry Dock, George Wall seconded
5-0-0 motion approved unanimously
Keith Nielsen will update his proposal
Larry Bonan will place concrete blocks to prevent people from parking on the northeast corner because of its dangerous state.
David Cole mentioned to Scott that there is a plank on the T dock that is a trip hazard.
Scott Mitchell will have the new dock and ramp there as soon as he gets the new dock and will repair the trip hazard/
4. North Cove Regulations
It was noted that the Manchester Harbor has a mooring change list
George Wall suggested adding a mooring change list to the lists the Commission currently runs in light of the request last week by Mr. Murphy.
He suggested including any dinghy davits, etc be included into the length of boat
Les Bowman likes the Manchester space limitation wording “if silting comes in where your vessel is and you can’t fit there anymore you have to find somewhere else to go”.
The boat has to fit in with length beam and depth.
Current policies are for the dredged area according to the harbor Plan. Dick Goduti points out that with the expansion in the cove the Commission has treated all mooring holders the same and he raises the question whether the mooring holders in the flats are entitled to parking and space on the dinghy rack. Consensus of the Commission is if a permit is issued then the mooring holder is provided parking and space on the dinghy rack.
Ray Collins spoke to the Chairman of the Park and Recreation about building a rack for kayaks near Founders Park and the Chairman was enthusiastic about the idea.
Les Bowman said the Commission can recognize changes that need be made to the Harbor Management Plan but those changes will need to go to DEP and town meeting.
Discussion
Les Bowman will work on language for a Change List and other recommended changes to the policy.
5. Adjournment
Motion- Ray Collins moved to adjourn at 9:17 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Ruth Hockert, Clerk
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