Town of Mashpee
Blue Ribbon Committee
Minutes of Meeting
November 10, 2005
The Town of Mashpee Blue Ribbon Committee was called to order in Conference Room #1, Mashpee Town Hall, 16 Great Neck Road North, Mashpee, Massachusetts at 7:00 p.m. on Thursday, November 10, 2005. The Chairman, Don Myers, presided.
Blue Ribbon Committee Members present: Zella Elizenberry; Lee Gurney; Beverly Kane; John Miller; Don Myers, Chairman; Bob Sherman; Glenn Santos and Douglas Storrs.
Also present: F. Thomas Fudala, Town Planner
A quorum being present, the Chairman called the Meeting to order.
Approval of Minutes
October 27, 2005
Motion: The Chairman asked the Committee if there were any changes to the minutes. Beverly Kane spoke and said that she concentrated on what was attributed to her. The Chairman requested three sets of minutes to be redistributed at the next meeting on December 8, 2005, which was voted unanimously.
Old Business
The Chairman said that he didn’t get the chance to talk to the water district regarding wastewater.
New Business
The Chairman had an update from several meetings ago, regarding school programs that addressed Cape Cod. He said that one of the programs was water sampling, not specifying nitrogen, and the programs were held in high schools and lower grades, too.
Lee Gurney stated that she thought it would be an opportunity for Mashpee schools.
The Chairman said that Mashpee High School had an opportunity to be advised with additional materials concerning this program and that the high school would be receptive to that. He added that this would be a positive thing.
Ms. Kane spoke and said she had found a Web site called www.capekeepers.org. and that she had signed up to become a Cape Keeper. She advised that it was a young organization and it did not have a whole lot of material. She said, however, that they had brochures geared to children and schools, one of them questioning: “What is your watershed I.Q.?” She added that she thought that if
Capekeepers continued with its’ program it would be something that the Town could get involved in. The group is a non-profit organization and supporters of Cape owners, including businesses, she said.
The Chairman said he thought it sounded like an interesting program and that he would take a look at the site and see if it could be used for the Town.
Glenn Santos remarked that he had sent a letter to members of the committee regarding a Web page, Agrisource. He had a contact in Agrisource, Guy Santos, (no relation) with whom he had a meeting earlier that day. He told Mr. Santos that he was a member of this committee (Blue Ribbon) and if Mr. Santos chose, maybe he could come in and give a presentation about what the company actually does.
Mr. Santos said that Agrisource was, for two years in a row, one of the top contacts of solid waste. He added that they were involved in Rhode Island river dredging.
He said there had been a fight for years about the Mashpee River and where to put the dredged materials, and this company pioneered a program which did a salt marsh restoration project. There was an oil spill that occurred in Rhode Island, they took all the dredging and mixed it with some organic materials and they spread it out. It was basically a pioneer project throughout the country. They would be more than willing to come in and talk and show the Board samples.
Mr. Santos said he had, a couple of years ago, talked with someone in the southeastern region and the first thing that stuck in his mind was the honey lagoons at the landfall. He said it was a source of water just leaching or nitrogen into the groundwater, over and over.
Mr. Santos spoke to Glen Herrigan of the Selectman’s Office, about the river dredging. He said that he went to Boston having a meeting with DPE. He stated that one could apply for a beneficiary use of termination or a determination of need, which was basically for health reasons or financial reasons.
Mr. Santos added that Mr. Herrigan went out and measured the lagoons, and they were 14,000 yards. Mr. Santos stated that a person would want to create a little mound, put sweepings on top of it, which he was sure the highway department had plenty of, and then the organic layer. He added that then the water was going to shed off the old lagoons. It’s a regulatory site. That’s one of the things the DEP likes to look at, cause I’m sure I know of other saltwater inlets and the biggest contaminant is high salt.
Mr. Santos said he thought that would be a perfect place to get rid of it, it’s free, the most to be done was to put a machine there and have the truck stump it and shove it in the hole. He added that the Town owned it, it’s already a regulated site, because the Board of Health, and that we still have the task of groundwater monitoring and monitoring that closed landfill, until at least the next thirty or forty years or forever. He doesn’t think the DEP and the people up there did not have a problem with it. So he knew at that moment that the information was in the Selectman’s Office.
The Chairman said he knew that some new information has been passed around; we are preliminarily talking about the particular site. At the end of the day it comes down to the funds to do it, he added.
Mr. Santos said that many years ago, the biggest obstacle was a place to put it. The only place locally is like the Bourne one, but they want $50.00-$60.00 a ton, disposal cost, plus trucking. It’s just a matter of putting the paperwork to the DEP.
Ms. Kane said it sounded promising to her.
Mr. Santos said he knew there is a consulting firm that did research on sites. He suggested that the Town hire an environmental company because they knew the legality of it, and they knew the contacts at the DEP. It was only a couple thousand dollars to have the company do research and post it to the DEP. Environmental people can know their lingo, he added.
Mr. Santos added that Mr. Harrigan sent the proposal to the Selectman’s’ office, he took it up with other board members, the Board of Health oversees the transfer station, regulatory wise. The DPW runs it. We have no problems with that. We have the advantage of those lagoons, which are bubbling up with water all the time.
The Chairman said that it was a very good idea. Anything else under old items from last week? he asked.
Noone on the Board spoke up.
The Chairman said that the last meeting it was more of a workshop than a brainstorming session, talking about ideas. He added that he would like to take tonight to move to the next one, if it was acceptable to the Board.
Ms. Kane said she had prepared a memo regarding wastewater issues, the purpose of it was to provide the committee a brief explanation of various local state and county committees, commissions, involved in some way with the issue of wastewater management.
Ms. Kane said it would help if everyone had a brief explanation about the various commissions and committees. She had offered some suggestions for the Committee’s consideration on this issue. She thought that it was time that the Committee began to focus and move forward. She said that the Committee had three town boards representing them. She listed the various boards that could give the Town assistance with the wastewater problem.
Ms. Kane added that when, in the past, there was a proposal made for the DEP, there was a listing of 16 items that should be looked and evaluated. And then to top it off, they made an excellent analysis of each of those. The Committee should focus on whether to say “Yea,” or “Nay.” What can the Conservation Commission do, what can the Board of Health do? , she added, to address the issue.
Ms. Kane continued that she thought it was a little early then on how the Board was going to tackle the problem. She thought the memo would have something for the Board to think about. Begin to get people assigned to certain issues to work on. But I think that this will be a good start, at least to have us think about it.
The Chairman said he thought it was an excellent recommendation. He added that at the next meeting the Board would go through each of the various items in detail.
Glenn Santos spoke up that Ms. Kane brought up a good point about the cesspools. He had talked it over with Glen Harrigan and was putting together with him a proposal of what they were going to do. Other towns had done it, he said. He said it was a beginning for the Committee that if you had a change of ownership and a cesspool, you had to bring it up to Title 5 regulations. Title 5 says that if the cesspool passes, you don’t have to upgrade it. There are a lot of criteria, he said, and he listed various situations in which Title 5 regulation would be enforced in a typical assessment of cesspools. He said he and Mr. Harrigan were going to be lobbying that the idea he had presented earlier, regarding these items, passes.
The Chairman asked rhetorically if anyone had any idea how many houses in Mashpee had cesspools?
Ms. Kane added the thought if the Committee members knew how old the people’s houses in Mashpee were. She said that people should forget about the issue and buy a composting toilet.
The Chairman said that it definitely sounded like an interesting proposal, what the impact of that would be.
Mr. Santos said that the idea was that if there were a change of ownership, you would have to have an inspection. That’s something we’re working on. We’re going to have a public notice meeting, we’re going to discuss it and then once it’s advertised two weeks after that, it’s the law, he said to the Committee.
The Chairman said would it be maybe he was incorrect, but asked if it would be correct to say that in the neighborhoods more prevalent with multiple properties using cesspools in the same neighborhood.
Mr. Santos did not have an answer to the question posed by the Chairman.
Lee Gurney spoke and said that her guess would be that usually the only way someone could find out if the property was Title 5 was when someone sold his or her house. She added that there were cottages in her neighborhood that were old and she would guess that they would need Title 5. She guessed that a lot of people who were seasonal in her neighborhood did not pump their cesspools.
The Chairman said that the reason for his question was that one of the things he was considering was satellite sewer systems.
Ms. Gurney stated that the more permanent residents would be the best place to start.
Mr. Santos added that in New Seabury, people were taking down cottages and making them into “trophy houses,” and that the agreement made was that we wanted them tied to the sewer. One of the things that was in agreement was when the line was done the street, they had to tie in to the sewer system.
The Chairman asked if in the future, even existing Title 5’s would have to tie in to the sewer system?
Mr. Santos added that he thought that at this point, it would kind of be premature. He said that if in five years they were having a meeting, the Town would have just gotten the money, that within five years, pipes were going to be laid, then we might want to take a step back, you could do a temporary repair or just do a Title 5, under the stipulation, as soon as the line comes down the street, the homeowner would have to be tied in.
The Chairman asked rhetorically that if homeowners tied into the system, down the road, would you envision tying in for all existing Title 5s? As soon as that line comes down the street?
The Chairman said that if you move in that direction, you will have a ready, set direction, you are going to lay pipe in areas where they come in.
Ms. Gurney said that an escrow option could be considered.
Ms. Kane said that the discussion was premature.
Discussion of Watersheds Map
F. Thomas Fudala
F. Thomas Fudala spoke into the microphone behind the lectern and explained to the Committee a facilities plan he had created, regarding both Waquoit and Mashpee Subwatersheds.
Mr. Fudala said that the Sewer Commission was looking at various waterways where they could discharge the water after it had been treated.
The most prominent area, which he pointed out, was gray, where there was fresh water in both Popponesset and Waquoit Bay and Quashnet Rivers. He said that what went into the ground in the gray areas went into the bays as well. He added that 100% of the nitrogen goes into the bays’ water and was reduced by bacterial action in the ponds. He explained that the in-between areas on the map go to streams along the way to the bays.
The red lines in the facilities plan showed subwatershed areas that should be eliminated, he pointed out.
Mr. Fudala added that some of the water he had mapped out was not so bad. He said that Mashpee River was the most needed, in terms of elimination.
Mr. Fudala said that the State had approved the Town’s wastewater affiliates’ plan.
Ms. Gurney asked if the areas in red, most needing to be treated, could be done with the ideas from the previous discussion by Mr. Santos.
Mr. Fudala said that there were some tables on his facilities’ plan. One of the big things you find in there, he stated, was controllable nitrogen. He added that in some of the seven bayments, the biggest nitrogen was through sediments in the water body-that was 100% reduction with wastewater control. People could use less nitrogen, it could get worse if they used Chem Lawn, he joked.
The Chairman asked about dredging the bay.
Mr. Fudala replied that dredging would just increase the amount of water in Mashpee River, only being a temporary improvement.
The Chairman said that the bottom line was no nitrogen in the first place. He added that this map, or facilities’ plan, was worth a thousand words. He said that he knew inherently that education was the best way to get rid of nitrogen as long as private and public sector should be able to reduce. The septic systems are the greatest contributor.
Doug Storrs said that wastewater was part of the problem. There was no regulation. He said that it seems like we come back to the same thing—to get rid of some of the septic resources of nitrogen.
Mr. Fudala said that people wanted the water, and that they didn’t care about the sewers.
The Chairman said that he had a representative from the water district. He was on his to-call list.
Ms. Kane said that on the Cape Cod Atlas, Mashpee was one of the towns studied.
Mr. Fudala said that he didn’t know about that report. He said he had a report of land use dated July of 2001. It was based on watershed areas-the red lines will follow up. Additional loads will add to the problem. He said he was not just talking about new development, but about the golf courses in these areas, such as Willowbend and Quashnet Valley.
Bob Sherman spoke, asking if there was a Town of Barnstable map similar to the one Mr. Fudala had made up. A map showing discharge areas.
The Chairman asked if the Sewer Commission had done anything regarding the Base (ANGB), as far as tying into some of their wastewater facilities.
Mr. Fudala said that the commission did have a meeting at the treatment plan itself. They were most interested in their discharge area. The Canal gets great flushing action, he said, half joking.
Mr. Santos said Mr. Fudala had made a point. In a lot of situations, he said, sewage treatment system-what you end up having is ground water in town will dry up close to drinking water, reducing water standards.
Mr. Fudala said that there were nine discharge areas around town, he was not talking about one pipe, but about multiple treatment plans, and multiple satellite plans. He said that the State had required the commission to look at wastewater issues. They did not get accepted because of the cost. Mr. Fudala said that the group wanted to go sub-regional, putting four to five plants around the town.
The Chairman said he thought it was a great beginning about where to put up satellite areas.
Mr. Fudala stated that the Committee may need to do what can we do now—too productive, repetitive costs.
The Chairman stated that the Committee needed to have some kind of time plan.
Douglas Storrs stated that they did not need new septic systems, what the problem were the people. They had to start retrofitting.
Ms. Gurney said that the committee had to go backwards.
The Chairman said the town needed zoning changes, variance, and various things to be accepted.
Mr. Sherman stated in a frustrated fashion that every time he turned around he heard a report or study. He said that there should be some ground water standard. He said there was only one facility plan happening on a county level - establishing a collaborative.
Mr. Fudala said that the group was covering the Town of Barnstable, and were coordinating with other towns. He admitted frustration over the plans.
The Chairman said it should be cost effective to everyone in town versus excluding people. He said that the town residents needed an incentive for them, for maintaining their own municipal system.
Mr. Miller said that people with denite systems would not be interested.
The Chairman said people of the town should consider long-term costs, and get past the situation, as it will become more economical.
The Chairman also said that to get the townspeople involved, they would require some municipal plan, have to get permits from the DEP on any of these treatment plants in town—see if the town could take them over.
Mr. Fudala said that regarding a 120 lot subdivision—some may or may not be seasonal. The result would be better than year round systems. Look at the legal requirements in the subdivision association. Look at the municipal agency, if they don’t pay their bills.
Mr. Storrs stated that the Town could make a huge plant—80 thousand gallon plant, a 30 thousand gallon plant all unused capacity. Deer Crossing, he added for instance—Cut the pipe and tie them.
Mr. Miller said that a holding tank does not subsist—maybe, if he thought about it, we should bottle up the honey wagon and take it to the Barnstable Treatment Plant.
Mr. Santos said there was more information needed, especially from the Board of Health moving together with proposal numbers for the cesspools.
The Chairman said that those plans were the action items, still carrying over from the other three meetings. He would get an agenda to keep us on track of the subject.
Mr. Miller said that the Committee was supposed to report quarterly—and give the Board of Selectman an update.
Mr. Miller said there were three or four areas we decide to embark on. Do one of each of the four. Sounds like a fair objective to the next meeting.
The Chairman made a motion for adjournment and so was voted unanimously.
(The November 10, 2005 Town Of Mashpee Blue Ribbon Committee Meeting was thereupon dissolved at 8:30 PM)
Respectfully submitted,
Kimberly Hurd
Board Secretary
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