Town of Holden
Public Safety Building Committee
Meeting Minutes
September 17, 2008
6PM HMLD Building
Present: Chairman Chris Lucchesi, Karl Makela, George Sherrill, Jack Chandler, David White, Peter Liddy, Mary Ryan (arrived 6:28PM)
Absent: Richard Bates, Hal Lane, Robert Beck, Brian Forts
Others Present: Michael McKeon, Kaestle Boos Associates, Paul McAndrew, Kaestle Boos Associates, Corrine Sienna, Kaestle Boos Associates, Wayne Whippie, WV Engineering, David Dill, WV Engineering, Robert Para, Jr. Lamoureux Pagano Associates, Mike Pagano, Lamoureux Pagano Associates, Elizabeth Helder, Recording Secretary
Others Absent: Todd Costa, Kaestle Boos Associates, Ken Costello, Kaestle Boos Associates
The Chairman called the meeting to order at 6:28PM.
Public Comment
No one from the public address the Committee.
Architect’s Report
Mr. McKeon made a presentation to the Committee to review the Design Development (DD) Cost Estimate and Engineering costs, the materials list, and the proposed geothermal system.
Mr. McKeon said that KBA culled out all proposed add alternates: geothermal system, carport, radiant heat under main entry walk, radiant heat under apparatus bay apron, design work on existing FS roof in order to reduce the DD estimate. Site plan revisions include the elimination of several retaining walls, 8,788 sq. ft. of paving, 27 parking spaces, one picnic table, flagstone steppers, and 460’ of chain link fence. Additional proposed changes to the existing building and the new building will create an estimated superavit of $78,084.
Dave White said that the proposed work in the existing fire station should be done through a separate bid, as they are design decisions that can be made at a later date. Deferring the bidding will attract a different type of contractor and will give the committee more flexibility in the end. Mary Ryan concurred with Mr. White. Dave White said that the other remaining add alternates need to be included in the final design.
Mike Pagano of LPA inquired when the project reaches the completion of its contract documents, will KBA have a recommendation of a contingency? Mr. McKeon said his recommendation was for a 5% contingency.
Peter Liddy said he would forward a list of design cost questions Mr. McKeon. Mr. McKeon said he would respond to the concerns via email for the Committee.
Motion by Dave White, seconded by Karl Makela, it was UNANIMOUSLY VOTED TO ENDORSE THE PROPOSED 200K IN CHANGES TO THE SITE PLAN AS PRESENTED.
Motion by Dave White, seconded by Karla Makela, it was UNANIMOUSLY VOTED TO APPROVE THE FLOOR TO FLOOR HEIGHT CHANGE TO 13’-4” AS PRESENTED.
The Chairman said that the Committee would deliberate regarding the proposed cost savings and the add-alternate list.
Geothermal Discussion:
Mr. McKeon said that KBA needs to sit down with the estimator and go through the geothermal costs line by line because KBA believes that the quote should be around $300,000 and not the estimated $417,069.
David Dill with WV Engineering reviewed how the operating system of a conventional HVAC system and geothermal closed or open loop heating system work. Mr. Dill said that he recommended that the Committee pursue a closed loop geothermal heating system. He said that the permitting requirements were less stringent for a closed loop system. Mr. Dill reviewed the cost requirements to run a traditional HVAC system vs. a geothermal system. Annual costs to heat a building of the proposed plan size are estimated: HVAC 24K to heat + 13K to move air = 37K; and Geothermal 11K to heat + 13K to move air = 24K. The three bids for test wells ranged from 10K to 17K.
Police Chief Sherrill commented that based on the cost of installing the geothermal system and the annual costs of running it, the payback period is longer than KBA initially quoted the building committee. Original payback period quotes were 8 years. Based on these new figures, the payback period could be closer to 20 years.
Rob Para with LPA commented that that the DCR might object to the system due to its proximity to the aquafilter. Paul McAndrew with KBA said that he would contact Graves Engineering regarding the permitting process with the DCR in conjunction with a closed loop system. Mr. McKeon said that the Watertown Public Safety facility used an open loop system and successfully went through the permitting process even though the facility was located in the Charles River Watershed area. Water discharge was considered to be minimal.
Mr. Dill said he had only solicited quotes for a closed loop system. He said that a closed loop system was reliable and simple as possible with the least exposure to risk. It is also site specific and the best for the geography of Holden.
Mr. Para asked if there was someone who could give the Committee cost information on the open loop system quickly as the Committee has been waiting for this information for a while and needs to make a decision soon.
Mr. White said that which ever system is chosen would need to be maintained with an annual service contract.
Chairman Lucchesi said the Committee needs to make a decision whether or not to pursue a geothermal system and make it an add-alternate to the project.
Dave White said he felt that the committee should drill deeper than the recommended 405 ft. Drilling at two schools in town did not hit water until 550ft. The Committee was in agreement to drill until water is hit. The wells can still be used as non-potable water on site if geothermal option is not pursued. Mr. Wayne Whippie with WV Engineering commented that in order to test the well for thermal conductivity/heat transfer, the well must be grouted and would not be available for non-potable use after being grouted. Mr. Dill will check to see if the well can be a two step process, thus leaving it free for non-potable use if the geothermal option use is not used.
Mr. Dill commented that the quotes he received were for per linear foot to 405 feet. The Committee requested that:
KBA to contact drilling contractors to confirm a price after 405ft.
KBA to confirm that drilling contractors have the ability to drill deeper than 405ft.
Mr. Para recommended that the Committee create a subcommittee to seek further geothermal information more aggressively. Questions he raised were:
Who will monitor the test well drilling? The OPM?
What information does the Committee need to make an informed decision?
Mr. Pagano said that he felt the committee had an engineering recommendation and enough information to make a decision.
Dave White said the Committee has received conflicting information regarding the actual costs and payback period from KBA and WV Engineering. He said he did not know what to believe and had little confidence in the information the committee had received to date.
Chairman addressed KBA. He said that the Committee is frustrated because the project has moved into the CD phase yet the Committee is still looking for information to make a decision regarding a heating system.
Rob Para asked KBA what their drop dead decision date is for a heating system decision. Mr. McKeon said that KBA needs a decision 4 weeks from today’s date. Chairman Lucchesi responded that the committee needs to receive all the information pertinent to making a decision within two weeks of today’s date.
Motion by Dave White seconded by Peter Liddy, it was UNANIMOUSLY VOTED TO CONTINUE TO PURSUE A GEOTHERMAL HEATING SYSTEM OPTION.
Materials Review:
Ms. Corrine Sienna presented the Committee with color and materials selections for the Fire and Police Departments. The materials presented are within the DD budget estimate. Ms. Sienna said that a cork tile floor was being used in the joint common area. A floating cork floor would cost an additional 2K more but would be more durable. She said that if the Committee wanted to upgrade any portion of the materials presentation, she would recommend upgrading to the floating cork floor. Gypsom walls will be installed in the corridors.
Committee members agreed that they liked Ms. Sienna’s color and materials presentation.
Central vacuum is not part of the design. Chief Sherrill said that is would be beneficial to have a central vacuum system outside the dispatch and detention rooms for noise reduction.
KBA will get a quote for a central vacuum system by the dispatch and detention rooms.
Chief Chandler requested epoxy paint in the apparatus bays to designate parking areas on the floor.
New Business
The Committee will discuss the existing station roof at the next meeting.
The Chairman said that the pre-qualification process needs to begin with the State. The Committee agreed to create a subcommittee comprised of a representative from the architectural firm, a representative from the OPM, and two other members. Dave White offered to serve on the subcommittee and it was suggested that the Clerk of the Works come on board early to fill the other vacancy. The Chairman said he would discuss the decision with the Town Manager.
The Chairman said that he received a scope of work for FF&E in order to hire a consultant. He will forward the scope of work to committee for review. Communications & technology also needs to be addressed: Committee to decide to hire a consultant as well.
At the next meeting fire department owners equipment decisions need to be discussed. The Fire Department will present at the next meeting: Oxygen system and Fire Alerting system.
The Town Manager will attend the 10/15 meeting to introduce Gary Kazmarek, Clerk of the Works.
Karl Makela, Committee Treasurer presented three invoices for signature.
Approval of Previous Minutes
Motion by Dave White, seconded by Karl Makela, it was UNANIMOUSLY VOTED TO APPROVE THE JULY 16, 2008 MEETING MINUTES.
Motion by Dave White, seconded by Karl Makela, it was UNANIMOUSLY VOTED TO APPROVE THE AUGUST 20, 2008 MEETING MINUTES.
Motion by Dave White, seconded by Peter Liddy, it was UNANIMOUSLY VOTED TO APPROVE THE SEPTEMBER 3, 2008 MEETING MINUTES.
Public Comment
Mr. Dave Ellis addressed the Committee and said that if the carport is an add alternate, make it the first one to add to the building project. He also suggested that he Committee look into the efforts at the High School to drill a well on site.
Project Management
Rob Para informed the Committee:
The estimation for the demolition of the house came back at a reasonable price.
He will attend a meeting with the Chiefs on 9/18.
A decision on the traffic signals bidding process needs to be made. What are the choices? And will they be lumped into the project costs/ mass highway or town can bid?
Paul McAndrew will check on the permitting status with Mass Highway.
Adjournment
Motion by Dave White, seconded by Mary Ryan, it was UNANIMOUSLY VOTED TO ADJOURN THE SEPTEMBER 17, 2008 MEETING AT 9:43PM.
Approved:
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