Public Safety Building Committee
Meeting Minutes
June 6, 2007
6:30 PM Holden Municipal Light Department
Present: Christopher Lucchesi, Bob Beck, Karl Makela, David White, John Chandler, George Sherrill, Richard Bates, Brian Forts, Mary Ryan, Peter Liddy,
Leah Francese-Wood
Absent: Hal Lane
Others Present: Michael McKeon (of Kaestle Boos), Susan Marsh, Louise Hugo, Derryl Dion (Holden call firefighter), David Ellis, (Retired Firefighter), Ed Weathersbee,
Sean Smith (Holden firefighter), Josh Poznanski (Holden firefighter), two other persons
Call to Order:
The meeting was called to order at 6:40 PM.
Approval of previous meeting minutes:
Mr. White made a motion to accept the minutes of the April 18, 2007 meeting as written. The motion was seconded by Mr. Makela. The minutes were accepted with no votes opposing, and two abstentions. The meeting minutes of May 2, 2007 will be reviewed and revisited.
Public Comment:
Chairman Lucchesi noted that the Committee appreciates public feedback and comments. He stated that this could be accomplished through speaking directly with the Committee and through email. Mr. Lucchesi provided the public with the Holden Public Safety Building Committee email address for comment.
There were no public speakers at this time.
Comments from the Chair:
Chairman Lucchesi reviewed the work done by the Committee thus far, in addition to discussing the decision making and plans to be made. He conducted a slide show presentation that included the mission statement of the projects, cost effectiveness, the needs of the Fire and Police Department, and community needs/expectations.
The presentation also included a focus on the Fire Department’s existing station, space needs, and initial design, as well as a focus on the Police Department’s primary site of interest, space needs assessments, initial design concepts. This also included a view of the Damon House sketch site and discussion on taking the Butler House to erect the station as Option 2. There needs to be a right-of-way through Butler House.
The presentation ended at 6:56 PM, with Chairman Lucchesi stating that the Committee and public need to reflect on the projects and decide where the plans/projects are going as of now.
Executive Session:
A motion to go into Executive Session was made by Chairman Lucchesi at 7:00 PM. Mr. Beck made the motion and the motion was seconded by Mr. White. A roll call for the session took place and all present voted in favor.
At 7:25 PM, a motion was made to leave the Executive Session. Mr. White made the motion and Mr. Makela seconded the motion. A roll call for the session took place and all present voted in favor.
At 7:26 PM the meeting was open for debate to discuss the Fire Department facility. Chairman Lucchesi opened the discussion for debate.
Chief Chandler stated that the existing site is the right location for Fire Headquarters. It is right for the station and works well. He had questions for Bob Mitchell (of Mitchell Associates) regarding the renovations and cost. There will be extra square foot costs that we will be paying for. Will new trucks be able to fit into the station? We need to look into strengthening the flooring to hold the trucks and what that will cost. Could a new station be built on the lower lot allowing for the apparatus bay to be located slab on grade? We’ll need to look at Bob’s design and determine what is needed. The 24,000 square foot design can go down to 22,000 square feet and be a useable. It won’t be as well built for future use 15-20 years from now.
Chris Lucchesi mentioned that the City of Worcester was looking into building a new station at the Worcester Cold Storage Facility.
Chief Chandler spoke with the Worcester Deputy Chief regarding the Cold Storage Site and it won’t be used as headquarters, but will include bunk rooms, day room, kitchen, etc.
Mr. White said it would be built for less than $5 million.
Chief Chandler said there will be no offices or training facilities in the building that Worcester is proposing, hence the lower cost.
Mr. Beck mentioned the cost per square foot equal money on renovations or new facility. He has visited some fire projects in Ayer and Lunenberg at about $5 million. There were some site problems in Ayer that cost more.
Mr. Beck mentioned he had some reservations about the best site for the Fire Department.
Mr. White stated the fire facility plan presented to the committee by Bob Mitchell had 7,000 feet of unused space. He is unhappy with the Fire Station plans. We took the wrong tact with having the architects work with the Chiefs. The result was we ended up with 31,000 square feet with the EMS combined. The previous project was only 7,000 - 8,000 more including Police. We are going in the wrong direction. There is no bottom line cost and it was done wrong. The architect was not given any direction when working with the Chiefs.
Mr. Forts stated that there can be no more failed efforts. There is a budget: What can be spent? We need to come to terms with the plans and provide input as what the town will support. This is a waste of time. We need to come up with a number to explain to the community for their support.
Mr. Beck stated we are going in the wrong direction. The Committee is also at fault with going in the wrong direction. That EMS is part of Lunenberg and Ayer. We need to give Mitchell leeway with the land given. With 24,000 square feet there should be renovations. Where will the Fire equipment go while there are renovations? Should a new drill yard be built?
Chief Chandler said how low can the apparatus bay be and still make it up to the street? The plans need to be looked at again and we can work with slope conditions.
Mr. Makela questioned if the fire equipment can get out with the slope with emergency exits.
Chief Chandler said with salting and sanding, the fire equipment can get out.
Ms. Ryan wanted to know the cost. No idea of the cost for the project. We are “spinning wheels” here and need a cost price. What is a reasonable cost for the project?
Chairman Lucchesi stated that given the number of meetings that have taken place and having gone through the process, he likes the idea of building a smaller/combined facility at the current fire department location.
Chairman Lucchesi stated to the committee, at any time, if someone had an issue with the direction the committee has taken, they have the power to change the course of action. If a member has an idea, share it with the committee and make a motion to take a different action. If their motion is seconded he will put it to the committee for discussion and then to a subsequent vote. If the motion maker does not receive a second they know the committee disagrees with their idea and they need to accept the committee’s position even if they don’t like it. It is easy to second guess prior decisions and we should do so.
Mr. Makela: Asked Michael McKeon what the cost per foot was for police compared to fire.
Michael McKeon stated it was a smaller percentage for fire.
Chris Lucchesi suggested that Mr. McKeon provide an estimated cost to combine both facilities.
Mr. McKeon stated about 10% of a building can be saved in a shared facility.
Chairman Lucchesi stated at $400 a square foot, if a combined facility was able to save 3,000 square feet (or roughly 8% of the previous project) the cost savings of a combined facility would be about $1.2 million dollars.
Mr. Beck suggested an equipment room. An average equipment room is 1,000 square feet. A mechanical room has more expensive equipment with a price difference on square footage, with a savings on a mechanical room wing.
Mr. McKeon stated a combined facility will be more cost effective than two separate facilities. There are various prices for square footage. There needs to be an agreement on a program design. The square footage needs to be figured out with a need to determine the site.
Mr. White said that the headquarters needs to be built and looking into for future growth. The Chaffins station will have to be moved. How much of the project will be funded? What will the community want to spend on the budget? He suggested that a civil engineer create the slope and not a landscape architect.
Mr. McKeon said Kaestle Boos is designed to do such work.
Mr. Bates asked how the Committee is to determine a dollar figure for the projects.
Mr. Forts suggested that a questionnaire be sent out to the Town residents to determine how much they can afford to put into project.
Mr. White said that there is no valid input from doing a community survey.
Mr. Forts said that the public would most likely have a dollar figure in mind.
Mr. Beck said that Paxton could provide insight on the plans and financial aspects of the projects. Square footage for the town of Holden would be the same as Lunenburg and Ayer facilities and the proposed numbers used by their architects.
Mr. Forts said if the community would not support costs for a public safety building; how could the community support a large facility?
Chairman Lucchesi said that a decision is needed to determine what will work. We need to find out what the community wants and ask the community what they want to pay for. The Public Safety Committee needs to meet the needs of the community.
Mr. Makela said that someone who saw a sketch of the proposed facility was questioning the building. The Public Safety Committee needs to tell the town that it will cost about $12 million dollars for combined facilities.
Mr. Liddy said the structure was too large. We need to go back and look at the site on Main Street and the Bateman property. Budget numbers from the professionals need to be sought on this site. One of the bays can be used for fire and have a split facility.
Chief Chandler said the town would need three or four stations at some point.
Mr. Liddy said he understands the Fire and Police do no like the facility location.
Mr. Forts suggested a new structure be built flush with the building behind the station. He doesn’t want to see the apparatus too high.
Ms. Ryan said 20,000 square feet, Holden said no to that building before?
Chief Chandler asked what is the value of the current fire station?
Chairman Lucchesi suggested that the Public Safety Committee discuss the Holden Police Department facility.
Chief Sherrill said he was excited about the Damon Site and he worked with architects. After reviewing the 1.7 acres he began having reservations about site. The Damon House is too tight for parking and he had reservations about the site itself and the downtown presence.
Chief Sherrill said it was too tight with alternating shifts, meeting schedules, and extra staff. He is concerned about parking.
Mr. Bates said there might be too much overflow from the Library.
Chief Sherrill said there would be no open space.
Mr. Makela suggested Dr. Rice’s space as well as Industrial Drive. There is land that WPI owns. Some is swamp land. It is worthwhile to look into the Rice property. Next to the property is metal scrap yard with trailers, which uses two lots. Can we acquire that lot plus the Rice property?
Mr. Bates replied that there are railroad tracks and trucks there and he doesn’t support the Rice property site.
Chairman Lucchesi said that the state owns a lot of land in the Town of Holden. The Committee should approach the state and inquire about the possibility of swapping state land for town land. There is not much town-owned property which is usable for our purposes. A drawback however, is it can be a lengthy process.
Mr. White stated there is property off of Main Street. The IIF has used resources to purchase property. If there a possibility of getting a good sizable lot can we use $325 square feet instead of $400 square feet? If the EMS is contracted, let the EMS stay where they currently are. The Police Department and Fire Station could be sold.
Mr. White would like to make a motion for the Architect to look at combining the Fire and Police facilities for $11 million.
The motion was to request that the Architect look at the Bateman property to determine a dollar amount of $11 to 12 million dollars. Mr. White made the motion and Mr. Makela seconded the motion.
Mr. Bates discussed the taking of four parcels.
Mr. Forts questioned how to pay for the parcels; through the IIF or go to the community?
Mr. Bates said he is not convinced on the Damon property or reconstructing the Fire Department if the Bateman property is a reasonable site. This project needs to be site driven. The Committee has tried best to find other sites.
Chief Sherrill replied that he has spoken to homeowners at the Bateman property site. There are water issues at that location. He mentioned that Foxboro got State hospital land from the state for their station.
Mr. Forts said there no state land owned properties on Main Street.
Chairman Lucchesi stated that there is state land across from Dawson School and surrounding the Dawson Recreation area. Maybe some political allies can be found.
Mr. Bates said the Bateman property can be fixed and remediated.
Mr. Forts said to look at the sites for single and joint facilities, and what can be built for $11 million dollars. There should be an analysis done of the site for joint and single facility structures.
By consensus the committee requested the Architect look at the appropriateness of the site located on the Westerly side of Main Street (between the high school driveway and Kendall Road) and to look into four lots.
A second motion was to look into the Creamer site and re-evaluate the site for the Fire Department. Bob Beck made the motion and the motion was not seconded.
Mr. Beck understands the objection to the Creamer property, that it was in a residential neighborhood but, the property has enough flat land for two combined facilities, much less one.
Mr. White said that Highland Street is not wide enough to hold the Fire facility and that the road will need to be widened.
Chief Chandler replied that Highland Street could be a problem because the road is so narrow. The issue is of more concern in the winter where the road would narrow even more due to snow.
Mr. Forts said that Highland Street would be the last site for approval.
Mr. Bates made the motion to request a feasibility study for a Police station at the site across from Dawson school, with Fire headquarters at the Bateman site or the existing site behind the current Fire Station. Mr. Makela seconded the motion.
The motion passed unanimously.
Mr. McKeon will need the street address for Dawson School.
Chairman Lucchesi will give Mr. McKeon the address information.
Public Comment:
David Ellis: Mr. Ellis stated that he heard the comments during the last meeting. Regarding the driveway at the Housing Complex, the Housing Complex can be used but the driveway will need to be renovated. Looking at the Fire Department near the railroad tracks near the driveway has to come out of the high site of land. Splitting the Fire Department at Bateman property and putting some apparatus in two places isn’t a good idea. The Station should be in one place. The Fire Station can be kept for the Recreation Department or keep within the Town for the Light Department. Not sure if there will be enough response time if the station is located at the Bateman property. Will the state put up traffic lights past the school? Also, will the state allow us $11 million or higher to fund two bays for the Fire Station? The
Creamer site has adjacent properties for sale and can another acre be purchased.
Adjournment:
Chairman Lucchesi made the motion to adjourn the meeting. The vote was unanimous to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:12 PM.
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