A regular Meeting of the Town Board of Guilderland was held at the Town Hall, Route 20 McCormick's Corners, Guilderland, NY, on the above date at 7:30 pm. The meeting was opened with the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. Roll call by Rosemary Centi, Town Clerk, showed the following to be present:
Councilman Redlich
Councilwoman Slavick
Councilman Pastore
Councilman Grimm
Supervisor Runion
ALSO PRESENT: Richard Sherwood, Town Attorney
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Supervisor Runion welcomed everyone to the evening’s meeting and asked for a motion approving the minutes of the February 12, 2008 Town Board meeting.
MOTION #71 Councilwoman Slavick moved to APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE FEBRUARY 12, 2008 TOWN BOARD MEETING. Councilman Pastore seconded the motion and it was carried by the following roll call vote:
Councilman Grimm asked for a discussion stating that he had submitted revised minutes to all Board members and was concerned that there was a pattern developing that the minutes were not consistent as they had been in the past. He further stated that the minutes should reflect only resolutions done in accordance with Roberts Rules of Order or have a transcript of each meeting prepared.
Councilwoman Slavick disagreed stating that she had reviewed at least two years of minutes in her files and anyone who came to the public comment period is noted, made a part of the record as it should be, and that, she felt it was open government.
Councilman Grimm stated also that when he appeared before the Board on October 16, 2007, his comments were not included in the minutes.
Supervisor Runion stated that when public comment is read to the Board a copy is presented to the Town Clerk for inclusion in the minutes, which she attaches and which Mr. Grimm had not done.
The comments that were read were a part of his political campaign. He further stated that if he would like to present his comments from last October, at this time to the Clerk, she would attach them to the minutes.
Councilman Grimm further stated that Democratic criticism was omitted from the minutes and the Republican criticism was highlighted. He also stated that he was fine with the inclusion of all comments in the minutes as long as it was consistent.
Supervisor Runion stated that he disagreed and that the minutes that Councilman Grimm had submitted fell nothing short of censorship. There was a lot of discussion held at the previous Board meeting; Todd Gifford spoke, as well as comments made prior to entering into Executive Session that was not included in Councilman Grimm’s minutes.
He further stated that there was a dual standard that if someone is critical of Councilman Grimm he wanted it removed and if it was critical of us he wanted to see it included.
He continued by explaining that the minutes are the minutes of the Town Clerk with no requirement under the law that they be submitted to the Board for approval.
As a courtesy, and it had been the custom, she has submitted them to the Board.
He also stated that he found that it was helpful to insure his vote had been accurately reflected.
Councilman Redlich stated that it was an inaccurate statement of law that the Town Clerk had to submit them to the Board but they did not have to be approved.
He further stated that at the last Board meeting regarding Superintendent of Highway Todd Gifford’s discussion was included, however a discussion regarding the agenda process occurred and not all of it was in the minutes.
Councilman Redlich asked if the minutes could be transcribed and posted on the Internet so that everyone can read all of the minutes instead of one person’s interpretation..
A further discussion was held regarding minutes and the approval of the minutes.
Councilman Grimm supported transcription of the minutes. He was for a single standard.
Supervisor Runion stated that the minutes were the minutes of the Town Clerk, an elected official and she was required to prepare the minutes.
Councilman Redlich asked if Supervisor Runion was opposed to transcribing the minutes.
Supervisor Runion stated that transcripts were unnecessary.
The DVD’s and the tapes of the minutes were preserved and available.
As part of the FOIL process they were provided.
It was an unnecessary exercise to also transcribe the minutes verbatim and he did not know of anyone who would do that.
Councilman Pastore stated that he had a concern with the rendition of Councilman Grimm’s minutes and would not approve them. Among many matters was a motion that he had made at the last meeting, which was seconded, that was interrupted with discussion going into Executive Session. In his tenure on the Board he had never heard a motion be made and seconded that he was asked to withdraw, which he did as an accommodation.
Councilman Grimm’s version of the minutes did not show the explanation or a reason for the withdrawal, whereas the Town Clerk’s did.
He further stated that verbatim minutes were not practical.
Councilman Grimm stated that in using Robert’s Rules of Order only a record of what was done and not was said was necessary.
He further stated he felt the Town Clerk’s minutes had a partisan tint to them.
Councilman Pastore stated that Councilman Grimm was entitled to his opinion but the appropriate measure would be to include quotations that were lacking and provide those to the Town Clerk.
He felt that if the Town Clerk’s rendition of the minutes were 80% complete the measure that the Board members should employ should not be that the minutes only be 10% complete.
He stated that certain motions that were made required more discussion and not to include them would be wrong.
He also stated that the Town Clerk is the custodian of the minutes and that Councilman Grimm’s version of the minutes were sent to Board members but were not submitted to the Town Clerk and should have been.
Councilman Redlich asked Councilman Pastore if the submission and approval of the minutes should be done away with.
Councilman Pastore stated that he would like to see the minutes.
Councilwoman Slavick stated that a balance was needed and that the way the minutes were being done was fine. She also stated that when she needed to go back for a review of the minutes there was a history.
Councilman Redlich stated that that was why he had asked for a transcript and asked why certain items had a more lengthy discussion than others.
Councilman Grimm stated that when he spoke at the October 16, 2007 meeting he criticized the Police Chief situation and it wasn’t included and asked how she could say it was consistent with other meetings.
Councilwoman Slavick asked if the attachments were submitted at that meeting and they were not.
Supervisor Runion stated the comments that were read by the public had attachments that were generally submitted and offered to have the attachment regarding Councilman Grimm’s comments of October 16, 2007 included in the minutes.
Town Clerk, Rosemary Centi stated that the comments that Councilman Grimm spoke of in February 12, 2008 were public comment made by a resident.
She objected to resident’s comments being removed from his version of the minutes. She also stated they she was more than willing to accept comments made by Councilman Grimm from the prior meeting.
She read a section of Town Law regarding the duties of the Town Clerk.
She also read an opinion from the Committee on Open Government regarding the fact that minutes could not be unilaterally altered without Board approval and stated that she had never had an objection made to her minutes.
Councilman Redlich agreed that the minutes should be submitted but that they didn’t need approval and asked again why a review of the minutes was necessary.
Councilwoman Slavick stated that she would like to read what had occurred in the previous meeting.
Town Attorney, Richard Sherwood asked that the motion made be voted on.
Councilman Grimm stated that either they should be transcribed so that everything that was done was recorded or adhere to the standard of Robert Rules of Order that just lists what was done.
Town Clerk, Rosemary Centi asked that she be allowed to do her job.
Councilman Pastore stated he did not disagree with those points.
At the meeting that was referenced by Councilman Grimm he did not make an issue as to why Councilman Redlich’s comments were not referenced.
He stated that it was up to the individual board member to review the minutes prepared by the Town Clerk and if they wanted to add comments that were omitted by the Town Clerk, they should propose that they be put in.
He further stated that he would not spend time making sure that other Board member comments be put in. If there was something lacking, they should provide it. He also stated that there was nothing in the minutes provided by the Town Clerk that were incorrect.
Councilman Grimm asked if Councilman Pastore was in favor of open government why he was opposed to transcribing the minutes.
Town Clerk, Rosemary Centi asked why he was in favor of removing resident’s comments.
Councilman Grimm stated that he did not remove the comments, that there should be a consistent standard for minutes or they should be transcribed and they should not be used as a partisan tool.
Supervisor Runion stated that it was unfair and unreasonable to make those comments.
Councilwoman Slavick stated that Board members should allow the Town Clerk to do her job as she has for the past 8 years. It was up to her to summarize and to put the minutes together.
Town Attorney, Richard Sherwood, stated that absent a local law, the Town Board could not require the Town Clerk to do anything regarding minutes.
Councilman Redlich Opposed
Councilwoman Slavick Aye
Councilman Pastore Aye
Councilman Grimm Opposed
Supervisor Runion Aye
PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD:
Carol Williams, Siver Road, read comments regarding the tone and substance of current Town Board meetings. (P 33A)
Councilman Redlich asked if he could question Mrs. Williams and she said no.
Christine Marshall, Whipple Way, former employee of the NYS Department of Civil Service for 25 years, informed Board members of the regulations regarding selection of a Police Chief in Albany County.
She stated that the title of Police Chief in the Town is under Civil Service and it is in the Competitive Class, ascertaining the merit and fitness of the candidate typically through an examination process.
Once the exam is held, and an eligible list is established from past candidates, it is submitted to the Town Board.
If the promotion list consists of three or more candidates the promotion list has to be used.
If there are less than three names, and an open competitive exam was held, then you could move to the open competitive exam to fill the position.
The only other way to fill the position would be to get a Police Chief from Albany County to transfer.
Albany County would make the decision as to whether that person could transfer. She further stated that the most common way to fill a position of Police Chief or any promotion position is through promotion. Civil Service Law favors promotion-filling positions. If there are not sufficient promotion candidates then you can go out to qualified individuals as ascertained by Albany County Civil Service to fill the position.
The State Civil Service Law limits, very clearly, the Boards area of discretion in this regard.
Councilman Redlich asked if she stated it would have to be a Police Chief from within Albany County.
Ms. Marshall stated that if that was the residency requirement established by the Albany County Civil Service Department.
Supervisor Runion clarified some statements regarding residency requirements.
Supervisor Runion also stated that violating the law with regard to the hiring of a Police Chief could result in personal liability with respect to the action.
Councilman Redlich continued with questions for Ms. Marshall.
Supervisor Runion stated that he would like to get into the general meeting and do the business for the people of the Town of Guilderland and if we can’t do the business for the people of the Town of Guilderland and if we can’t get into the agenda items and if we can’t have reasonable discussion and if we can’t treat respectfully the people who come before the Board to make public comments in a dignified and appropriate manner we should adjourn the meeting and come back at another time.
Councilman Pastore stated that he was concerned with regard to potentially opening up the Town to some sort of liability.
Councilmen Redlich and Pastore continued with further discussion regarding the law pursuant to the hiring of police officers and Chief of Police.
After further discussion, Supervisor Runion stated that the conversation was going nowhere and made a motion to adjourn the meeting.
MOTION #72 Supervisor Runion moved to ADJOURN THE TOWN BOARD MEETING OF MARCH 4TH, 2008 AT 8:37 PM. Councilwoman Slavick seconded the motion and it was carried by the following roll call vote:
Councilman Redlich Opposed
Councilwoman Slavick Aye
Councilman Pastore Aye
Councilman Grimm Opposed
Supervisor Runion Aye
Supervisor Runion thanked all for coming and stated that this meeting’s agenda items would be tabled until the next Board meeting to be held on March 18th, 2008.
Respectfully submitted,
Rosemary Centi, RMC, Town Clerk
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