Skip Navigation
This table is used for column layout.
 
Planning Board Minutes 4/13/09
Greenfield Planning Board
Minutes for April 13, 2009
Minutes recorded by Kathy Carpenter

Members Present: JAdams, BMarshall (alt), GMorris, JFletcher, MSteere, KO’Connell; BMarshall is sitting in for MBorden. Gene Mitchell is present.  

7:05pm Start of Meeting

MSteere reads minutes from March 23, 2009.

The following corrections are noted:
Line 57:  change non-grandfathered to ‘pre-existing’
Line 73:  add time of 9:05pm for end of meeting
Line 52:  Change Crotchet to ‘Crotched’

MSteere moves that the minutes be accepted as amended, JFletcher seconds, no discussion, all in favor, the motion passes.

7:13pm Mail

  • Site Plan Application Submittal for 783 Forest Road Properties, LLC (aka Delay’s Harvest Market)
  • Souhegan Valley Chamber of Commerce 2009 Neighborhood Heroes and Community Stars Nomination Announcement
  • LGC 2009 Local Officials Workshops Schedule
  • Planning Board current YTD Budget Report
  • Select Board minutes for 3/26/2009.
7:15pm  
Discussion regarding the role of an alternate:  The PB discusses whether an alternate can take part of a meeting and ask questions.  This would prepare the alternate in case he/she would be required to vote.  GMorris consults the PB Handbook.  The handbook states that they can only vote when sitting in for a member, it does not say anything about participating in a meeting.  The PB believes that the alternate member should be able to participate in the meeting regardless of their voting status in the event they are required to vote.  .

7:20pm  
The PB discusses holding next meeting upstairs (weather permitting).

7:30pm - Site Plan Review for 783 Forest Road Properties, LLC (aka Delay’s Harvest Market)
Present: Jennifer McCort of McCort Engineering; Brighid Wood, public; Zeb Wood, public; Ken Paulsen, public; Peter Davenport, owner; George Rainer, public; Amy Lowell, public; Rick Griffing, abutter; Eugene Mitchell, public; Conrad Dumas, public; Ellen M Dumas, public.

GMorris introduces the members of the PB.  GMorris asks if any member of the board needs to disqualify themselves.  GMorris states that his son is an employee and asks the PB if they feel he needs to disqualify himself.  The PB does not feel this is necessary.  PDavenport also does not feel this is necessary.  GMorris reads the procedural rules for the hearing.  There were no questions.  KO’Connell states that the proper notifications and notices have been completed.  A sign in sheet is provided.  GMorris invites the applicant to present their plan.

JMcCort provides the PB with a briefing regarding the site plan.  The reason for the expansion would be to more fully service the community.  It will formalize the entranceway into the site and make it safer to get into and out of.  There is also a plan to add self-storage areas.  The gas pumps will be removed.  An island with bushes and trees will be put in to formalize the entrance.  The dumpsters, ice machine, and gas exchange will be moved.  1 parking space per 500 sq ft is used (using examples from similar stores) for a total of 17 spaces and 1 being a van accessible handicap space.  The existing artesian well will need to be moved.  The two parcels will be merged and the new well will closer to the existing property line that is between the two parcels.  The self storage area will be fenced in.  MSteere asks if the drainage system is set up to take the extra drainage from the additional roof.  JMcCort states that the change is very small due to the amount of tar and gravel already present.  There are planned catch basins for the additional water.  JAdams asks about the second floor area access to the self storage and if there is a fence.  JMcCort states there is no fence planned in the front.  JMcCort adds that in there will be a need for a variance application to the zoning board regarding the setback encroachment.  JAdams states that an application for setback variance for the back of the property must also be submitted.  JAdams asks about the parking and if there is a hard and fast formula regarding parking.  JMcCort states that individual towns have their own rules but there is no state code regarding parking spaces per square footage.  An increase in traffic is not expected in regards to the self-storage units.  GMorris states that an application must be submitted to merge the two lots.  BMarshall asks if there is a second floor to the addition.  JMCort states that there are two floors there today. BMarshall asks if there will be an additional floor.  PDavenport states that there is no plan to use that space.  

7:50pm PHopkins, Greenfield CEO arrives.

GMorris collects fees in the amount of $190.00 from PDavenport.  

MSteere reads through the checklist.  The following were noted:

  • Item 2:  Properly show business district all the way to the RR tracks on the locus map.
  • General Comment:  add legend on the second page, legend needs to be consistent for all pages.
  • Item 4:   location of the back access road.
  • Item 8:   engineering calculations for drainage are needed.
  • Item 12:  add note that states that catch basins will have block and filter.
  • Item 13:  expand information regarding fire safety for the plan, review of plan by the Greenfield Fire Chief regarding fire/life safety.
  • Item 16: preliminary floor plans need to be provided, elevation of the storage facility, elevation of the retaining wall.
Items for discussion:  parking area plan and access to/from for emergency vehicles.

GMorris asks if the PB has other comments based on the checklist.  JAdams asks where the employees are going to park. PDavenport states that there will be spaces at the storage facility.  JMcCort states that there are five additional spaces as well.  GMorris, responding to a phone call from GRainier, brings up PB minutes from May 14, 1990, May 28, 1990,  and July 9, 1990 and reads excerpts from the minutes regarding the previous expansion.  GMorris states that there have been no prior restrictions placed on future expansions.  GRainier suggests the Board read the ZBA Decision from the zoning board meeting from June 18, 1990.  KO’Connell will look for the notice of decision.  A short 3 minute break is taken at 8:43pm.

8:50pm  KO’Connell provides the PB with the records from the zoning meeting of June 18, 1990.  There are no conditions listed in the decision.  KO’Connell provides the PB with copies of the 1990 plans.  KO’Connell feels that the decision does not contain any conditions with would prevent further expansion of the property, regardless of what the meeting minutes contain for discussion.

MSteere notes that the easement for the drainage that runs through the property is not shown.  JMCCort states that there was no easement granted.  There is one access easement on the left side, but that is shown.  GMorris addresses the meeting regarding the procedures.  JMcCort asks about when going to the zoning board will be necessary.  

The deficient checklist items are read:

Item 2:  Properly show business district all the way to the RR tracks on the locus map.
General Comment:  add legend on the second page, legend needs to be consistent for all pages.
Item 4:   location of the back access road.
Item 8:   engineering calculations for drainage are needed.
Item 12:  add note that states catch basins will have block and filter.
Item 13:  expand information regarding fire safety for the plan, review of plan by the Greenfield Fire Chief regarding fire/life safety.
Item 16: preliminary floor plans need to be provided, elevation of the storage facility, elevation of the retaining wall.


GMorris asks if any member of the PB has any comment.

 JFletcher asks about the third lot ‘Lot 7:  rights to a well’ easement, but the well is not depicted.  The location of the well needs to be added, the PB is in agreement that this should be added to the list of deficiencies.  

MSteere moves that the information is sufficient to invoke jurisdiction for the application.  BMarshall seconds, there is no further discussion. GMorris abstains, all in favor, the motion passes.

GMorris asks the applicant if there are any further details that they would like to add.  

JFletcher asks about the location of the chain link fence. It is shown on the last page.  GMorris asks what the building is going to look at.  The storefront will look the same as it is today.  The storage shed will be the standard beige with green trim and a green roof.  There will be about fifty 10’ x 15’ units.  JAdams asks about the aesthetics regarding the chain link fence.  

KO’Connell would like some type for some type of verification that the state acknowledges that an easement does not exist.

9:04pm  The public hearing is open.
PHopkins states as a public access building, the CEO and FD will be requesting a fire safety engineer review of the plans.  PHopkins also feels that public storage facilities are not a permitted use in the business district and he will need some more information on that.

GMitchell asks how many parking spaces there are now, and will the number of spaces increase at the same percentage.  He discusses special exceptions versus variance, to encroach on set backs when it is not necessary.  The increase in the roof line will make the store look huge rather than if they used a different roof structure.  If he lived next door looking at a chain link fence and storage facilities, it would be an eye sore.  For the community this is probably not what the public would want, and it is not in keeping with the ‘village district’ overlay of the business district.  This use is not in the spirit of the ordinance.  Aesthetically this could be grating.

RGriffing, an abutter, has great respect for the general store in town however the idea of a chain link fence and metal buildings is not appealing.  He stated this is a small town and we have spent a lot of money making the center a nice community. He doesn’t feel the storage shed building will make this better.

GRainier added that the DOT had some really big issues regarding the access to the state road during the town upgrades.  Drainage is also going to be a big issue. A small swale was deemed a wetland by the state when the septic system when in.  That should be noted on the plan.  When Mr. Delay removed the structure on the lot next door, his intention was to leave it as an open lot. He had one year to put in another building. At that time, there was no site plan review and the curbing between lots disappeared and fill was brought in.  Also, calculations need to be done to determine how this will impact the town septic.  His review of the 1990 zoning showed a 35’ set back, if they moved that back even further, the building will be nearly right on town property.  The town does have a right of way between the Griffing’s and the lot.  GRainier does not feel there will be near enough parking, and people might be parking in the road.  The store lot is .44 acres in area, the gas pumps are currently in the state right of way.  He doesn’t believe the store was moved back 14’ from the right of way.  He feels internal traffic pattern needs to be looked at for the proposed store and the snow storage areas are currently not adequate in the winter.  GRainier believed the emergency vehicle access is up to the FD but with a parking lot full of cars it will be difficult to provide emergency access.  He does not feel that storage buildings will enhance the downtown area one iota.

CDumas stated that the drainage pipe that runs from across the street needs to be considered.  The also stated that the town was applauded statewide for the bond to improve the downtown area and the changes that were made.  He challenges that storage facilities are a permitted use and does not feel they are.  He mentioned that there were issues regarding DeLay and the DOT.

AKnowle agreed with the concerns regarding the aesthetics of the storage units.  She stated that this is an old community town and that it doesn’t think this really fits in.  She asked if the units will be run by the store and how is this going to increase the employee count at the store?

BWood stated that when you think about a picturesque town, Hancock center, Amherst center, you don’t imagine a metal storage building.  She mentioned that a storage building should go up towards the lumber yard or the steel building up there

RGriffing asks those presents to take a look at the ‘Greenfield Village Park’ picture and reflect upon that.

KPaulsen, is in favor of allowing the expansion of the market, but if it is an all or nothing then he would have to be against it.

GMitchell mentions that the bond was used to remove a steel building from the area.

JAdams asks if the public would be supportive of expansion of the store, but is hearing that the town would not like the addition of storage unit.

GRainier believes expansion of the store would be a great idea but they should not be allowed to impinge on the set back any further, perhaps expanding to the west side of the building instead.

BWood, asks what the proposed expansion floor space would be used for.  JMcCort states that it would be to expand the store and the goods offered.  PDavenport states that the coolers will be around the exterior walls.  BWood asked if there will be more deliveries, more trash, etc and how that will impact traffic flow.  What about the trash?  BWood asks if this has been thought through by the PB.  GMorris states that it is something that will be included in the deliberation.

EDumont mentioned the late bus from Conval stops at Delays’ so there are people parking there that aren’t shopping, instead waiting for students to come off the bus.  Does that need to be addressed?

PHopkins does not feel that it should deter the expansion.  JAdams states that this is a good point and a question that the PB can follow up on with Conval, that it is not PDavenport’s issue.

RGriffing states that there is a state ordinance regarding how many feet dumpsters can be placed near a well.

GRainier mentioned it seems the town feels that the expansion is good for the town, but questioned why would storage facilities be good in the center of town?  If the storage facilities would be good for the town then this information should be gathered.

GMitchell states that he can see the expansion of the store but doesn’t know that they can get a variance on a variance regarding the set backs.  The town spent 2 million dollars trying to make the center look half decent and metal buildings in the center of town would be a tough nut to swallow.

AKnowle stated that if the town is really trying to address its aesthetics, perhaps doing anything with that area shouldn’t happen until we figure out what is happening to Carbee’s.  GMorris states that we can’t freeze one business and make them wait for another.

GMorris asks for any other comments.

JMcCort would like to ask the board in the public hearing a couple of questions.  The swale is not on the property, and the requirement is not to map off property.  Also, the town septic was looked at and there is quite a bit of room for expansion.  JAdams states that it is about at about 1/3 capacity and the third lot has a hook up that has never been used.  The public use bathroom should be researched.  Also, JMcCort would like a copy of the zoning map from the original DeLay’s application back in 1990.  GMitchell asks if gray water is also running into the system.  JAdams states that there is no separation.  PDavenport states that there is a grease trap at the store and it is cleaned it out.

KO’Connell states there is a 25 – 50 foot buffer on the wetlands, the reduced setback would have to be looked at.

GRainier speaks about the pipe coming across Delays’ property and that it is in very poor condition.  PHopkins stated a section caved in and was replaced.  GMorris asked who is responsible for the pipe.  PHopkins and GRainier believe it is the property owner.  

GMorris asks if there are any other comments.  Hearing none, at 9:42pm the public hearing is closed.  

The PB enters into a deliberative session.  GMorris asks how the PB would like to proceed.  

PDavenport states that having that empty lot without any additional revenue stream would be difficult.  JAdams asked PDavenport how much you need this lot to be something more than a parking lot.  PDavenport states that he would need to do something with it.  He thought a single family house as a possibility, but it is a non-conforming lot.  GMorris asks what the lot can be used for.  Single family?  KO’Connell thinks the reduced setbacks will cause problems.

GMorris, reads section 3 regarding business districts from the zoning ordinance.  A discussion ensues and the PB feels that storage sheds would require a hearing before the ZBA.   K’OConnell agrees.  The PB cannot permit that type of use, as it is not an authorized use in the business district.  It is not allowed by special exception, it would have to be a variance.  GMorris mentions that the further encroachment on the set back would require the applicant to show that a hardship exists and that this is their only option for expansion.  BMarshall points out that this encroaches not only on the back but also on the side.  BMarshall asks about the gas tanks and PDavenport states that the company that owns them will be removing them.

MSteere asks the PB if the applicant should go before the ZBA before the PB approves the concept.  BMarshall feels that a lot of work and preparation has been done and that the applicant deserves that the PB continue with the deliberative process, based on the support for the expansion of the store alone, and that the PB could provide conditional approval based on the ZBA decision.  MSteere states that the PB cannot dictate how the store can fit on the lot itself until the issue regarding how it is going to be laid out due to ZBA decisions.  JAdams feels that the PB should talk options, to allow for ‘possibility’ of what other options available for the property rather than storage units.  The PB should talk openly about this.  MSteere states that the feeling was not about specifically the idea of a storage facility, but the use of metal buildings that wouldn’t be pleasing to the town.  BMarshall would like to ask the applicant what they would like to do, regarding continuing deliberation with the PB or appearing before the ZBA with variances.  The PB should facilitate this process for the applicant, with the most expedient process.  The applicant believes they need to go before the ZBA first, and if the space isn’t there to expand, then the plan can’t happen.  BMarshall asks if the building could be grown to the west.   The applicant states that to the west is a separate lot.

GMorris asks what the applicant would like to do.  PDavenport feels that he needs to come back with another plan based upon what he heard from the town.  The PB discusses the different possibilities for accepting a revision.  The PB can waive the administrative fee, and thus the only fees that would be required would be the public notice fees.  GMorris states that the applicant can withdraw without prejudice and resubmit a new plan.  PDavenport withdraws the application at 10:22pm.

10:22pm  The PB enters into a general discussion.  

10:30pm  JFletcher moves that the meeting be adjourned,   KO’Connell seconds, no discussion, all in favor, the motion passes.