PLANNING BOARD WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY – MARCH 15, 2005
356 Main Street – Farmington, NH
Members Present: Charlie King, Troy Robidas, Hiram Watson and Don MacVane
Absent: Gerry “Gary” White (On leave of absence)
Norm Russell -Absent with notification
Robert Talon - Absent
Selectmen’s Rep: Paul Parker
Staff Present: Doreen T. Hayden
Paul Esswein - Absent
Public Present: Su-Ann Stickles, Steven Edwards, Jonathan Berry - Berry Survey and Engineering, Jonathan Oakes - Pike Industries, Larry Major - Pike Industries
Chairman Charlie King called the meeting to order at 7:04 p.m.
Chairman King recused himself, as he is a direct abutter to the 1st applicant Donna Goslin and seats Don MacVane as alternate to Norm Russell. He also hands the chair to Secretary Troy Robidas as senior member of the board to conduct the meeting.
Continuation of Application Review for 2-lot subdivision By: Donna Goslin (Tax Map R5, Lot 9) property known as 154 Ten Rod Road.
Paul Parker asks the applicant if she would like to wait a few more minutes until her engineer and road agent arrive before the meeting is continued. Ms. Su-Ann Stickles replies yes.
Chairman King comes back into the chambers, takes his position as Chairman back and he and the board members discuss the Site Review Regulations and the interpretations of what defines a major and minor subdivision. Paul Parker comments that they have already discussed and gone through the site regulations, questions Chairman King if he's right, Chairman King - yes, they extended it for Paul Esswein the new Town Planner to have comment, and in discussion the majority of the comments are the descriptions of the minor site review. When the issue came up at sub-committee as proposed by Mike Garriphy (spelling?) he proposed to leave it as it, but some of the members, myself (Chairman King) included wanted to give clear examples of what is considered a minor site review, to give rules of definition what is minor
and what is major, as it is listed now everything that is not major is minor and is not a clear description. Chairman King discuses with the board members in greater detail the major / minor definition of site review. Paul Parker asks if we could put changes in at any time, Chairman King - yes, and we could formally adopt the regulation but we would have to review the our procedure for adopting regulations to see if the board has adhered to it. This was accepted previously in whole, we've reviewed the changes made to the document to insure accuracy and then at the second hearing Chairman King believes it could be accepted, the history should be reviewed to insure that we are in compliance with the regulations being adopted. Chairman King does not have any issue with it just being an interpretation in the short term and when we choose to add language that is more descriptive on a minor site review that could be added later, Paul Parker interjects "at a
workshop meeting", he further comments that these items have been continually on our workshop meetings for quite some time and need to address these issues and get them resolved, either formally accepted or sent back for more work. Chairman King agrees with Paul Parker, but as a board tonight we need to determine what we are going to do about our elections. Then turns over to Ms. Stickles and asks if she is ready to continue.
7:18p.m. Chairman King rescues' himself once again as the applicants surveyor and road agent have arrived. Secretary Troy Robidas takes over the chair once again as senior member of the board and restates the purpose of tonight's meeting.
Continuation of Application Review for 2-lot subdivision By: Donna Goslin (Tax Map R5, Lot 9) property known as 154 Ten Rod Road.
Troy Robidas acting Chair - Mr. Berry will be presenting on behalf of the applicant. John Berry - Berry Surveying and Engineering. John passes out copies of the plan he's prepared to each of the board members. John Berry gives a little history behind this application; they would like a lot for their daughter to build on. The existing lot on it's own does not have enough frontage on its own to divide in half. They did apply for a Zoning Variance that was not granted, so they have come before this board at least one other time looking for advice and suggestions and the plan before you is the proposal to meet the requirements as far as the Zoning Board and the Planning Board is concerned. Lot numbering will need to be changed as there already is a lot numbered 9-1, but we will ignore that for
tonight's discussion. There is an existing foundation, existing septic and is approved done by Paul Gelinas (spelling) out of New Durham. Basically what is being proposed a short road that will create the 250' + which is the zoning requirement. Existing house, well and septic system on lot 9 with an area of 5.02 acres; will not need state sub division approval. Lot 9-1 will have an area of 4.36 acres, which is less that the 5-acre minimum for sub-division and will have to go to the state for approval, with the existing septic system in place. Complete topography has been completed. This lot is a part of a past sub-division which separated what is known as Tax Map R5, Lot 9-1 from Lot 9 and as referenced under the plan which was done by Orvis / Drew LLC who has provided the soil maps that are before you. John Berry discusses the soil types, the 12" culvert design, sizes and make-up, where placement and water flow will be all in greater
detail, he shows all of this to the board members on the drawings that he provided. John Berry now offers to answer any questions from the board.
Troy Robidas states that he wasn't here for the 1st presentation so some of the questions he might ask may seem to be redundant from past meetings. He starts his questions by asking where the driveways will be coming in off the roads, are there any proposals or projections for locations to access the lots and the existing driveway will be abandoned. John Berry for ease of tying into the existing driveway, they would come in off of the hammerhead and tie into (pointing to area on map) to make a gradual change coming in to existing, points where the garage will be and Ms. Stickles also points on the map where she would like placement, John advises the board that will be added to the plan, using the ends of the hammerhead to tie into the existing driveway, then create a new driveway off of that. Troy
Robidas asks if wetlands will be impacted, John Berry - no wetlands in that area. Discussion continues between Troy Robidas, John Berry and applicant Su-Ann Stickles about the water flow and where it will channel too. The other issue Troy Robidas brings up is the hammerhead road design and notes that our regulations do not allow for a hammerhead road design. He reads from page 14 of the sub-division regulations, but does suggest that a waiver could be issued and the board would vote on the acceptance of the waiver. Hiram Watson - wasn't this suggested by the TRC.
Su-Ann Stickles interjects that when they went to the Zoning Board all that was needed was an 85' foot road variance, which Troy Robidas noted that yes - they were a little short on the frontage, Su-Ann Stickles - right, they voted 2-2 to not give the variance. The Zoning Board gave the Goslins/Stickles the suggestion of the hammerhead, when they came back down again Paul Erwin (should be Esswein) showed them an idea of what they build. Don MacVane asks how they calculate 250 - board members comment on how that is calculated and discussion is continued about the turn radius in the hammerhead, discussion continues about the various options for developing a hammerhead and the sizes and turning radius, also the idea of a cul-de-sac being built. John Berry comments that they request a waiver for the
hammerhead cul-de-sac as opposed to the circular cul-de-sac. John Berry's personal feeling, for a two family road that is going to be private, that the design he's presenting tonight is more than adequate to allow for emergency and such type vehicles to enter the property
Hiram Watson comments that once this is sub-divided it won't be able to be sub-divided again because of the 3-acre limit, as they don't have 6 acres additional to sub-divide. A hammerhead in there is just like a split driveway as far as he's concerned and Troy Robidas agrees it's a glorified driveway, Hiram Watson has no problem with this and does not believe they are setting a precedence as each application is different. Paul Parker comment that this is the 3rd time the board has seen a request for a hammerhead, Troy Robidas - but they haven't gone through, Paul Parker agrees. Troy Robidas questions Paul Parker why the previous requests were turned down, Paul Parker - not any isolated issue, many different factors to each application. Hiram Watson poses question to John Berry about re-numbering of
the lots, John Berry agrees, also questions the group 3 soil and John Berry explains to Hiram Watson the various soils and their locations by pointing to the areas on the plan. Troy Robidas questions the septic systems age, John Berry - done in 2004, he questions the septic design in his packet dated 1991, John Berry - the original house, septic approvals good for 4 years to completion. Troy Robidas questions the engineering costs on the road, is there something in writing, road agent - done quite a while ago, was in their packages, is the $12,500.00 a legitimate amount - yes - Steve Edwards, road agent. Troy Robidas questions if a bond was going to be requested, Paul Parker replies that was a concern and objective by Norman Russell, Don MacVane - would consider this is a family transaction and there is no real arm length transaction going on and would suggest the bond be waived, mother and daughter, I'd make that motion, it would be different if they were going
to sell off the lot, Paul Parker-one stipulation is there would be no further sub-division, Hiram Watson - is that a requirement, Paul Parker - that is something that would be asked for however I'm not sure that the property is able to re-subdivided. Don MacVane argues that point, the fact is that we don't know where we going in 50 + years from now, Hiram Watson - you're just putting an extra burden on them, Don MacVane - no further sub-division at this time and they could choose to come back later down the road and re-apply. Paul Parkers intention is to ask for no further sub-division, as there are some questions in our regulations, i.e. confusions between major and minor descriptions on the sub-divisions; refers to section 215 of the subdivision regulations. John Berry defends road agreement and states they are willing to contact E-9-1-1 for road approval and are willing to add conditional approvals upon approval of plan and that it will be provided on plat. Troy Robidas has
an overall concern, not specifically about the project just in general, is the point of what's to say that in the future there aren't multiple creations made from a 100' frontage with the making of a hammerhead design which then would have multiple house lots all cramped together, the point of the 250' frontage is to keep some distance between the houses, Hiram Watson argues the point that there is not precedence set, each case is different. There is continued discussion between Don MacVane, Troy Robidas and Paul Parker about this type of particular design.
Paul Parker addresses another issues, he wants the applicant to add as a condition that they are to reclaim and re-seed old driveway and not put up the iron gate, the applicant explains her family built 2 beautiful large lamp posts and put in gate between those posts to add to the entrance way attractiveness, Paul Parker believes that if the gate is put up between those posts that the operation of an illegal driveway could still be used as access onto the property. Troy Robidas addresses the road maintenance agreement as submitted, there is no road name listed on the agreement, he was hoping that Paul Esswein was here, as he believes these need to state that they run in perpetuity with all future owners and does not state that, it only states that the applicants will unconditionally guarantee to maintain the
hammerhead road between the Goslins' and Stickles and that the Town of Farmington is discharged, he believes that the Town of Farmington Attorneys needs to review. The discussion continues about having a private road and the possibility of having a road association. John Berry jumps into this discussion and asks if these requirements that are being discussed are conditions of the Planning Board and if so, they could be written in as conditions of approval and written on the plan to be recorded at the Registry of Deeds.
Paul Parker wants to go back to section 215; subdivision minor - no potential for future sub-division and that is one of his strong feelings for no future subdivision, if there is no future sub-division then this would make it a minor sub-division, Paul Parker asks Don MacVane - is he reading that correctly, because if there is potential for re-sub-division, then it will go into a major and that has more requirements than minor. Troy Robidas at this time he does not believe there is as you need 3-acres for sub-division. Paul Parker adamantly wants it stated that there is no future for sub-division, asks John Berry and the applicant if they have any problems with that, John Berry replies if the Goslins' have no problem with that then a note can be put on the plan to that effect and again is recorded at the
Registry of Deeds.
Don MacVane questions if a gravel road is okay, Troy Robidas replies the regulations state paved. The applicant has already asked the waiving of the paved road. Don MacVane questions Steve Edwards on what his plans for road are and Troy Robidas interjects that it will have to meet the Town of Farmington road specs. Don MacVane asks what it would cost to pave over and above the $12,500, Steven Edwards replies over $15,000 in addition to the $12,500. Troy Robidas questions design specs of the road and believes those should be included in the plan, John Berry comments they will be taken out of regulations and draw a diagram with the specifics, John Berry will add that to the page 3 of the plan.
Paul Parker one other concern - about bonding as spoken in previous meeting, do we feel that's necessary. Don MacVane believes that should be waived, lot sold to family member no bonding would be required, Troy Robidas bonding would be to insure that is meets the Town of Farmington standards. John Berry suggests that they tie in an inspection of the roadway to the issuance of the house portion of the building permit? John Berry further states that they will request waiver of the bonding because it is family and then request an inspection be done prior to the building of the wood portion of the house so that they could go forward with the foundation once the snow is gone and still gives the Town of Farmington some control over the road while it's built. Hiram Watson asks when the applicant plans on
building, Su-Ann Stickles replies she has had her log home on the ground for 8 months now living in a trailer, Hiram Watson suggest that we make it subject to the letter of occupancy, Paul Parker - No, I think it should be to the building permit, Hiram Watson - just trying to help her out, Paul Parker - I know. There is more discussion about the occupancy permit, the house going up, the start of the construction, and how the road will be roughed in, Troy Robidas asks if they will use the roughed in road - the applicant replies - they can or use the original driveway until the new one is complete as it goes right to the new lot. Steven Edwards comments that in other towns, they have the inspection by the road agent of the road / driveway done as they go along. Paul Parker comments that he feels comfortable with Clark Hackett doing the inspections. Troy Robidas questions the applicant on how they feel about building the road and "having it all up to snuff" before the start of the
house building, the applicant replies that she has all the players in place, Troy Robidas questions how quickly Steven Edwards road agent can be ready to start the road. Paul Parker goes back to the bonding of the road issue - questions to Steven Edwards on how he feels and what the cost might be, Steven Edwards - his money is all tied up in another development - Paul Parker asks how much it would cost to bond $12,500 Steven Edwards replies most towns ask for 125%.
Troy Robidas suggests that some votes should be made at this point as there are a couple of differences of opinions; to start: Should we make a motion in regards to the road and when that will be done - 1st of all Paul Parker questions gravel or pave? Don MacVane questions if the board has been waiving paving on minor sub-divisions or in the last year been waived, Hiram Watson interjects there are 15 miles of unpaved road that he knows off. Paul Parker goes back to bonding issue and Troy Robidas suggests the town take the $12,500. And more discussion continues with Troy Robidas stating that this is a "crafty" way to create required frontage, Don MacVane likes "crafty".
Troy Robidas wants to start at the road design:
Hiram Watson motions to waive the requirement for the 40' radius turn around as referenced on page 14, item 17; Paul Parker - that will be part of 4.16 Street Design, correct - Troy Robidas, 2nd by Paul Parker, all those in favor, Don MacVane opposed, Troy Robidas not voting only in case of a tie, Paul Parker states if we were a full board of 7 members than I would agree with that, but since we are only a board of 4 members I feel you should vote, Troy Robidas - I would be opposed to that, now a tie vote : 2 in favor = Hiram Watson, Paul Parker, 2 opposed = Don MacVane, Troy Robidas, motion denied.
Paving of the cul-de-sac - motion on that; Paul Parker wants to ask a question 1st, the top layer of the gravel would be - Steven Edwards replies 1 1/2 crushed and 6" deep. Paul Parker motions that the paving be waived, 2nd by Hiram Watson, all those in favor, 3 in favor, 1 opposed by Don MacVane, motion passes.
Bonding - Don MacVane motions to waive the bonding for the road with the stipulation that they want the lot deeded to Mrs. Stickles, Paul Parker asks - to be completed when or is that all of your motion, Don MacVane replies, the road will have to be completed to receive a certificate of occupancy, Troy Robidas summarizes the road to be inspected and accepted as completed as to the Town of Farmington specs, with engineered drawings/specs to get the certificate of occupancy, 2nd by Hiram Watson, any discussion, all those in favor, 3 in favor, 1 opposed = Paul Parker, friendly amendment by Paul Parker to have the road agent Clark Hackett inspect road, 2nd by Hiram Watson, all those in favor, motion passes.
Troy Robidas asks if there are any more waivers that need to be discussed or shall we go into the contingencies? Paul Parker questions as-builts, Troy Robidas says he read something about that in the previous minutes but not sure what the discussion was, Don MacVane asks John Berry to define "as-builts", he explains after the road is built, they go out and locate the location and the culvert to be certain that it is built to specs, you want to make sure what was proposed was done. Paul Parker asks if they want to make a motion or add as a condition of approval. Paul Parker makes a motion, Troy Robidas states the motion as; an as-built is completed prior to the inspection" Paul Parker adds completed and provided to the planning office prior to inspection and the occupancy permit, 2nd by Don
MacVane, Troy Robidas asks how it is going to be documented, John Berry - not on plan, all those in favor, motion passes.
Conditions of Approval:
1) Road Agreement - needs to be a condition of approval, if it’s in it’s present state and the Town of Farmington Attorney says it's okay than fine, but it needs the Town of Farmington Attorney's approval, also road needs to be named and included on the plans that are recorded with the registry of deeds.
2) Provide new plan with circular driveway / cul-de-sac showing 2 driveways coming off into the one road.
3) Show discontinuation of old driveway with the re-seeding and re-loaming.
4) Road cross-section design detail on plan.
5) As builts plans will be submitted to the Town of Farmington prior to the inspection of the road.
6) No future sub-division.
7) State sub-division approval required.
Paul Parker motions to approve, 2nd by Hiram Watson, all those in favor, motion passes.
Paul Parker motions for a 5 minute recess, 2nd by Don MacVane, all those in favor, motion passes, 8:58 p.m.
9:05 p.m.
Troy Robidas recalls meeting back to order, steps aside as acting Chair and Chairman Charlie King is reseated.
Paul Parker presents - The Selectmen received estimate for normal upkeep of Paulson Road from Clark Hackett, costs rounded up for 5-year period - $24K +-, maintenance projection. To tar Paulson Road $4500 - $5000, 528'; 20' road width, need 130 tons at approximately $35.00/ton. This estimate was received favorably by the Selectmen and they were receptive of such. Dale Sprague did address additional drainage problems.
Chairman King formally asks applicant if they would be agreeable to the above; yes and they would like to work out a plan for paving of the existing.
Paul Parker - 2 questions, either the board or applicant can answer; trucks entering route 11 corridor and concerns, none from the applicant.
Larry Major - The compensation ratio package has only been in effect a couple of years. When a disturbance of 10,000 square feet of wetlands occurs a compensation package for mitigation shall be devised. Proposed to protect an area on lot 11 in perpetuity in an easement that the Town of Farmington could hold, it sits closer to the town well, approximate 10 acres;
1 ratio =16,154.
Chairman King goes over a list of concerns:
- Paving recommended by Clark Hackett.
- Exiting right onto Paulson Road heading toward Route 11.
- Notify Town of Farmington staff if assistance is needed.
- Driveway location is as presented.
- Application reclamation 2-1 slope.
- Time of operation 6:30am-4:30pm = absolute latest - add a 50 ft wooded buffer to keep down
noise.
- Days of operation Monday - Friday.
- Test pits done on site - witnessed; Golden Environmental.
- Storm water management - internally drainage.
- Requirements - proposed methods to keep roads clean - Construction entrance will have
crushed stone, tarps on trucks, sweep the roads if necessary.
- Page 8, section 12; performance guarantee - reclamation bond, Larry Major gave no thought
to that. After approval by Planning Board goes to Selectmen with reclamation suggestion
average cost $1500./acre
- $13,500 for reclamation of 8.6 acres - Jonathon Oakes will drop a bond off to the Planner,
which will then be presented to the Selectmen for approval.
Chairman King lists contingencies required for approval of application:
1) Hours and days of operation - Monday - Friday 6:30am - 4:30pm
2) Paving to be done as recommended by Clark Hackett and approved by the Selectmen.
3) Submit & present a report to the board after they hit 270 elevation, per 2002 earth removal
regulations.
4) Accessing from pit, turn right onto Paulson Road toward Route 11, any deviation of this, the
Town of Farmington is to be notified.
5) Approval of mitigation plan by DES before removal of wetlands from site.
6) $13,500 bond for reclamation.
7) Bond off-site improvements of Paulson Road approved by Selectmen.
8) Applicant responsible for proper signage in road "TRUCKS ENTERING WARNING SIGN"
as recommended by the road agent for placement.
Hiram Watson motions to approve with contingencies, 2nd by Troy Robidas, no discussion, all those in favor, motion passes.
Chairman King asks for a motion to elect officers for the coming year, Rules of Order state 2 weeks after Town of Farmington elections the board members hold their elections. Paul Parker motions to delay the nomination/vote to the April 5, 2005 Planning Board Meeting to allow the time to send each of the board members a letter requesting their presents, 2nd by Troy Robidas,
all those in favor, Paul Parker and Troy Robidas in favor, Charlie King and Hiram Watson opposed, motion fails.
Troy Robidas motions to recommend Charlie King as Chairman for this next year, 2nd by Hiram Watson, all those in favor, unanimous; Charlie King accepts nomination.
Troy Robidas motions to recommend himself as Secretary for this next year, 2nd by Paul Parker, all those in favor, unanimous;
Troy Robidas motions to nominate Hiram Watson as Vice Chairman, 2nd by Chairman King; Hiram Watson - will consider the nomination and respond at the next meeting of April 5, 2005.
Chairman King motions to extend 5 more minutes, 2nd Troy Robidas 10:11pm
Chairman King motions to accept the Site Review Regulations as written, and have discussion on these at 1 more meeting "only if required", 2nd by Paul Parker, Hiram Watson agrees. Paul Parker comments the issue of concern is the major/minor definition.
Chairman King recommends we drop the continuation of sub-division regulations.
Chairman King recommends the 2005 work plan issue is imperative to be worked on.
Paul Parker motions that we continue subdivision regulations and they should be noticed.
Chairman King motions as suggested in a letter to the board by Doreen T. Hayden that the meeting times be changed from 7:00pm start to 6:00pm, ending at 9:00pm with overtime to 10:00pm as necessitated, 2nd by Paul Parker, all those in favor, motion passes. This time change will take effect at the Planning Board Workshop Meeting of April 19, 2005.
For discussion only Chairman King suggest the board think about moving the meeting days back to the way it was previously, 2nd and 4th Tuesday of the Month, Paul Parker does not like that idea, he's a Selectmen and they meet on the 2nd and 4th Monday of the Month, which would be 2 late nights back to back.
Motion to adjourn by Chairman King, 2nd by Hiram Watson, all those in favor, motion passes.
Meeting adjourned = 10:38pm
____________________________ ______________________
Charlie King, Chairman Date
Farmington Planning Board
APPROVED AS WRITTEN 04/05/2005 WITH 1 CHANGE ON PAGE 2 OF 9; 1ST PARAGRAPH; LINE 9:
CHANGE GOSLIN TO STICKLES WHICH HAS BEEN HIGHLIGHTED TO SHOW CORRECTION.
AMENDED POSTING 04/14/2005 - TO INCLUDE CHANGE ON PAGE 8 OF 9 - CONTINGENCY #3 CHANGE "HIT 275 ELEVATION" TO "HIT 270 ELEVATION".
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