Town of Charlton
Planning Board Minutes
784 Charlton Road
Charlton, New York 12019
Minutes of Planning Board Meeting – October 20, 2008
Chairman Ray Black called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. at the John W. Taylor Hall.
Present: Ray Black, Chairman, Jay Wilkinson, John Kadlecek, Connie Wood, Mark Hodgkins, Dawn Szurek, Bill Keniry, Esq., Planning Board Attorney, Susan York, Planning Board clerk and Kimberly Caron, Recording Secretary. Chris Mitchell joined the meeting at 7:20 p.m.
AGENDA MEETING:
Mr. Black stated that there is a quorum of five members.
Grant
Caroline Gallego from New York State Archives was present to discuss the grant available to the Town for technology in the new Town Hall.
Mr. Black stated that Mrs. Gallego is present to gather information on what the Planning Board is interested in for the technology needs in the new Town Hall.
Mr. Black stated that a lot of the Planning Board’s presentations are in paper form. Mr. Black stated that it is often hard to display the maps on the board to the audience because of the size, some people cannot see. Mr. Black suggested projection capability, where the drawing of the parcel could be on a CD that could be displayed for the audience to see.
Mr. Black stated that he would like to see the Statewide GIS System available for the Planning Board’s use and to also be able to project that information.
Mr. Hodgkins suggested a projector that hangs from the ceiling that projects onto the walls that could be controlled by one source or from the table, especially if it was interactive so we could point to something at the table and have it point onto the projection where everyone could see it.
Mrs. Gallego inquired if e-mail was a need.
Mrs. York stated that online services available are very slow. Mrs. York stated that in Charlton, it is dial up only for most Board members.
Mrs. Gallego stated that some towns do all of their files electronically, like filling applications.
Mr. Black stated that would be a plus to the Planning board.
Mrs. Gallego inquired if the application was on the Planning Board’s website.
Mr. Black stated yes but it is not interactive.
Mr. Black stated that there are also administrative interests, for example, public hearing notices, and certain searches that have to be done. Mr. Black stated that having capabilities automated through the system would be a plus to the Planning Board. Mr. Black stated that the system could also print out address labels.
Mr. Black also suggested a workstation for the administrative duties with the capability for paper filing, and electronic filing as automated systems are set up so that work done at home or at Town Hall can be transferred back and forth.
Mrs. Gallego inquired as to where the files are currently being held.
Mrs. York stated that the Planning Board has one filing cabinet and the boxes on top of the cabinet are also Planning Board’s.
Mr. Black stated that it would also be good for the Planning Board to be able to scan the files into a system to be stored in electronic form.
Mr. Keniry stated that the Board has to keep the materials immediately accessible, in some kind of user-friendly searchable accepted medium.
Mr. Black stated that the Board would like to have that kind of capability, because once you have the files electronically archived, then you have the ability through the Town’s internet site to be able to allow people access to the meeting minutes, the Public Hearing information, and to find out what is going on with something that they are interested.
Mrs. Wood inquired if the building were going to be WiFi.
Mrs. Gallego stated that was a very good point.
Mrs. Gallego thanked the Board for their ideas.
Minutes
Mr. Black asked for comments on the draft of the September meeting minutes. Mr. Black previously provided comments to the meeting minutes. Mr. Black read his comments to the Board. Mrs. Wood asked for clarification of “one over one” on page 11. Mr. Black stated that it means always having someone check the work. The Board agreed to change “one over one” to “peer review”. Ms. Szurek marked minor changes on the draft being circulated relative to something she had said.
Public Hearings
Mr. Black stated that there are no Public Hearings.
Lot Line Adjustments
Heritage/Palmer (247-1-29.11 & 247-1-29.12)
Mr. Black stated that this is a straight forward application. Mr. Black stated that at the last meeting the Board requested the site location be added to the drawing and the signature block be added to the application. Mr. Black stated that the Board has received a new drawing with the changes requested.
Ms. Szurek stated that the word “barn” was not changed to “shed”.
Subdivision Applications
Heflin/Durst (255-1-40.1, 41, 43.1, 43.2, 43.3)
Mr. Black stated that this is a placeholder as this matter is on hold.
Ward (225-1-15.1)
Mr. Black stated that the parcel is located on the corner of Maple Avenue and Route 67. Mr. Black stated that the Board needs to decide if both lots need to be shown or leave the drawing as is.
Mrs. Wood stated that the AG Data Statement is missing the William Smith Farm.
Mr. Black stated that the Board would request the survey be extended to cover both lots.
Pre-Application Conference
The Charlton School (256-1-38)
Mr. Black stated that there is one pre-application conference on the Charlton School.
ZBA Referral
Mr. Black stated that there are no referrals.
Reports
Mr. Black stated that there would be standard reports.
The meeting was closed at 7:33 p.m.
BUSINESS MEETING
Opened at 7:34 p.m. with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Minutes
Mr. Black made the motion to approve the draft of the September 15, 2008 minutes with changes incorporated. Mr. Kadlecek seconded the motion. All were in favor.
Mr. Black stated that since the applicants for the next matter weren’t present yet the Board would move to Agenda item 5a.
Subdivision Applications
Heflin/Durst (255-1-40.1,41,43.1,43.2,43.3)
No one representing this matter appeared.
Mr. Black stated that there has been no action and this is a placeholder.
Ward (225-1-15.1)
Michael Ward appeared before the Board.
Mr. Black stated that the Board has a complete application. Mr. Black stated that the extent of the survey map is limited to just the new lot being created. Mr. Black stated that the drawings would need to show the full extent of the whole lot, then the subdivided portion including the existing structures, wells and the substantial features on the remaining lands of Ward.
Mr. Ward inquired if the maps on file from 12-13 years ago would be adequate.
Mr. Black stated not for review purposes. Mr. Black stated that the County needs to have something that has been approved for filing.
Mr. Black stated that Mr. Ward could have his surveyor contact Mrs. York or himself.
Mr. Mitchell requested that Mr. Ward also include the measurements to Route 67, the setbacks and the frontage.
Mrs. Wood stated that the William Smith Farm would need to be added to the AG Data Statement.
Mr. Wilkinson inquired if a perk test would be required.
Mr. Black stated yes.
Mr. Ward inquired what a perk test was.
Mr. Black explained what a perk test was.
Mr. Black inquired if Mr. Ward could have the information for the next meeting.
Mr. Ward responded yes.
Mr. Black stated in review, a new sketch plan with full parcel and full improvements shown, perk test information and changing the AG Data Statement are needed for the next meeting. Mr. Black gave Mr. Ward the original AG Data Statement for revision.
Mr. Mitchell requested the setbacks for the creek also be included in the new drawing.
Mrs. York provided Mr. Ward with a copy of the instructions that list the survey map requirements.
Lot Line Adjustments
Heritage/Palmer (247-1-29.11 & 247-1-29.12)
Penny Heritage appeared before the Board.
Mr. Black stated that the changes from the last meeting have been made to the drawing. Mr. Black stated that the drawing now shows the site location and there is a signature block. Mr. Black stated that the Board has a complete preliminary application. Mr. Black stated that there is one additional change, changing “barn” to “shed”.
Mr. Black stated that the Board accepts the application as a complete preliminary application. Mr. Black stated that the application will be forwarded to the County for review. Mr. Black stated that as this is a lot line change, the Board can waive the Public Hearing, the engineering review and the fees.
Mr. Keniry stated that the parcel is also located on the Town line.
Mr. Black stated that a copy of the application will also go to the Town of Ballston Planning Board for review.
Mr. Kadlecek stated that this is the movement of a lot line so the title of the drawing needs to be changed to make it clear that a one acre parcel is not being created.
Mr. Black stated that the title of the drawing should be reworded to “Lot Line change transferring 1.1 acres from the lands of Palmer to the Lands of Heritage”.
Mr. LaFountain stated that the “shed” should be “garage”. Mr. LaFountain stated that there is no “machinery shed” category.
Mr. Black inquired as to the use of the actual building.
Mrs. Heritage stated that it is a tractor garage.
Mr. Wilkinson read from the Zoning Ordinance.
Mr. Black stated that it should be changed to “pole barn”. Mr. Black asked Mrs. Heritage to have her surveyor contact him.
Mr. Black made the motion to declare the Planning Board as lead agency for the purposes of SEQRA. Mr. Kadlecek seconded the motion. Mrs. Wood abstained from the vote for conflict of interest reasons. All were in favor.
Pre-Application Conference
The Charlton School (256-1-38)
Tom Peterson appeared as the attorney representing the School.
Mr. Peterson stated that the Charlton School owns the land and the Ketchum Grande operates the school under a lease. Mr. Peterson stated that the school is a residential school for girls in grades 8 through 11 with emotional problems and are unable to function in regular schools. Mr. Peterson stated that the school operates under the Offices of the School and the State Education Department. Mr. Peterson stated that the State Education Department gave the school the mixed blessing of a higher certification and then told the school that under that certification it no longer met standards. Mr. Peterson stated that the State Education Department is now requiring the school to enlarge its facility and to focus more on special needs students as opposed to the troubled girls that had been the focus of the past. Mr.
Peterson stated that Don Marshall, the Executive Director, will be giving a better idea of what the school does.
Mr. Peterson stated that they have to meet the specific regulatory requirements of State Ed. Mr. Peterson stated that if the Planning Board requests a change and that impacts on the regulations they will then need to go to State ED. Mr. Peterson stated that where turn around time for a normal applicant may be a couple weeks, here we have the process of going back to the State ED for approvals as well.
Mr. Black inquired if State ED provides the funding.
Mr. Peterson responded yes. Mr. Peterson stated that the state legislature has already passed legislation authorizing DASNY to do this. Mr. Peterson stated that they estimate it will probably be one year before they have a preliminary application. Mr. Peterson stated that they came before the Board to hear of any concerns early in the process, that the Planning Board sees in the preliminary plans.
Mr. Black stated that it would be important during the course of this discussion to include things that the Board might see as changes that would impact the approval that is already gotten.
Mr. Peterson clarified that they do not have the approvals yet.
Mr. Black stated that with a project of this magnitude it seems impossible to be able to say yes we like what you have and we won't make any changes at all.
Mr. Peterson stated that they are not asking for that, they would like to present what they believe the project will look like. Mr. Peterson stated that as it stands now the school facilities are about 13,500 square feet, 10,750 will be retained and 15,000 will be new construction bringing the total to 25,750 square feet at the end.
Mr. Fenton stated that the project is estimated at $7.5 million dollars.
Don Marshall, Executive Director, gave a brief explanation of the NYS legislation passed requiring the State Education Department to begin to develop new standards in order to retain special education students. Mr. Marshall stated that SED asked them to provide enhanced education services to meet the needs of special education students with learning disabilities. Mr. Marshall stated that no more students will be allowed in residence. Mr. Marshall stated that existing students and past students will remain. Mr. Marshall stated that they are license to have 35 students. Mr. Marshall stated that with the additional square footage they will be adding an additional 6 students that will be living at home and having their education there. Mr. Marshall stated that these students will be bussed in and out.
Mr. Mitchell inquired as to the nature of the upgrade.
Mr. Marshall stated that it will be classroom upgrades. Mr. Marshall stated that there will be upgrades to the way they teach science, home and careers. Mr. Marshall stated that one of the goals is to help these young women who come from disadvantaged backgrounds and disadvantaged education to become self-sufficient.
Mr. Mitchell inquired if they would be reworking the existing buildings or adding new construction.
Mr. Marshall stated that there will be some reworking and some renovations of the existing 13,000 square feet, then an additional 12,000 square feet for 4 new classrooms.
Mr. Fenton, President of the Board of Trustees, stated that not only is the State looking to save money, but a lot of that falls down to the County level. Mr. Fenton stated that in assuming that they are able to bring students that are currently placed outside the State, whatever County they come from would all share that savings.
Paul Guillet, Civil Engineer presented the plans of the school. Mr. Guillet stated that he is not the architect; the architect on the project is SRG Architecture. Mr. Guillet stated that he would like to go through the proposed upgrades for the school. Mr. Guillet showed the existing school, the dorms, the parking lot and the chapel. Mr. Guillet stated that the only changes being proposed are to the main building. Mr. Guillet stated that they are proposing to add an extra outer layer to expand the classrooms. Mr. Guillet stated that the existing structure is in white and the addition is the shaded area. Mr. Guillet stated that the existing septic system is where they are proposing the addition and will relocate the septic system. Mr. Guillet stated that perk tests have been witnessed by
Mr. LaFountain. Mr. Guillet stated that the water supply comes from the road and will remain the same. Mr. Guillet stated that a sprinkler system will be put in. Mr. Guillet stated that the electric supply is located in the back of the building and the box will be relocated but will remain in the back of the building. Mr. Guillet stated that drainage is taken care of by two dry wells in the rear of the building. Mr. Guillet stated that they will be adding infiltration chambers, which will meet DEC’s requirements.
Mr. Kadlecek inquired if it would be a buried system, like a drain field.
Mr. Guillet stated that yes it is all underground. Mr. Guillet stated that it is a half pipe, open side down, and buried in a bed gravel. Mr. Guillet stated that the mechanical engineers for this project will be installing a geothermal heat exchange system that will take care of the heating and cooling for the building. Mr. Guillet stated that in the shaded area there will be a series of wells that go down some distance.
Mr. Fenton stated that there will be 64 wells for the heating and cooling exchange in the geothermal system.
Mr. Guillet stated that there are several minor changes that will be occurring. Mr. Guillet stated that the pool house needs to be moved, the fencing around the pool will also need to be moved, and they will be adding landscaping.
Mr. Black inquired about parking lots or paved surfaces.
Mr. Guillet stated that they are not changing those areas at all.
Mr. Kadlecek inquired if they were going to make any special design features that will minimize energy use, lighting use.
Mr. Fenton stated that the building is going to be designed to LEED silver status.
Mr. Guillet showed the architectural drawings showing solar panels on the roof of the building.
Mr. Fenton stated that they are evaluating whether to design the building to accept solar panels or actually install them. Mr. Fenton stated that they are evaluating that with the architect and the engineering contractor. Mr. Fenton stated that the building will be designed to accept solar panels. Mr. Fenton showed where the solar panels will be located on the drawing.
Mr. Fenton introduced the other Trustees present at the meeting: Fred Acunto, Dave Stafford and Bill Herkenham.
Mr. Peterson inquired what else the Board needs for good understanding and to what degree does the Board require a survey. Mr. Peterson stated that they have a survey of the 45 acres, which has been previously provided, but the entire property is 285 acres.
Mr. Black stated that the Board does not know the status of the survey on the complete parcel because the existing survey is 30-40 years old. Mr. Black stated that there have been a number of changes to the parcel, including water, wells and additional housing. Mr. Black stated that part of the site plan review is understanding the infrastructure of the parcel as it supports the facility and, in addition, to the impact that it may or may not have to surrounding homes, houses, or other infrastructure. Mr. Black stated that, what is lacking right now is the knowledge of what exactly is on the parcel. Mr. Black stated that it would be desired to have a full survey. Mr. Black stated that he feels that it is time to have a legitimate current survey.
Mr. Black inquired where the water lines were located.
Mr. Acunto stated that the water is public water. Mr. Fenton stated that the school is outside of water metering district. Mr. Fenton stated that when the water leaves the metering pit it becomes the property of the Charlton School.
Mr. Black stated that the Board would like to see documentation.
Mr. Acunto stated that the maps show the line. Mr. Fenton stated that the County created the GIS system, making it possible to see the school with aerial photography. Mr. Fenton stated that it is unrealistic to ask for a survey.
Mr. Mitchell suggested a survey of the old existing wells on the campus itself.
Mr. Fenton stated that the 45 acres have been surveyed. Mr. Fenton stated that it is one parcel divided into three separate pieces. Mr. Fenton stated that the north side of Jenkins Road and the south side of Lake Hill Road are not being touched. Mr. Fenton stated that the largest piece is between Jenkins and Lake Hill Road and they have surveyed a substantial part of that. Mr. Fenton estimates that the closest neighbors, to be affected by the project, are 1000 to 2000 feet away.
Mr. Black inquired if the parcel was one tax parcel.
Mr. Fenton stated that he believes that it is one tax parcel.
Mr. Marshall stated that 80% of the parcel is agricultural land or wood lots and the other 20% is the campus and they have that area surveyed in detail. Mr. Marshall is concerned about the cost of a full survey of all 285 acres.
Mr. Peterson presented a larger copy of the survey for the Board to review.
The Board further discussed the water line.
Mr. Black stated that the Board will be looking at this project using today’s standards during the site plan review process. Mr. Black stated that for the site plan review, today’s standards require a larger survey, beyond the 45 acres. Mr. Black stated that he feels that the point is valid that it is not necessarily so that an official survey be completed to get all of the information that he Board needs. Mr. Black stated that the Board does not feel that a survey for the entire parcel will be required.
Mr. Black stated that he would like information on how the Fire Department views the ability for them to access the site with emergency vehicles. Mr. Black stated that during the site plan review, the Board would be asking the Fire Services and Police Services for their input.
Mr. Peterson stated that their project entails upgrading and expanding a single building in the complex.
Mr. Fenton stated that they are not changing access.
Mr. Marshall stated that the Fire Department comes every year to conduct tests and inspect the facilities every year and that the NYS ED Department also performs inspections.
Mr. Marshall also stated that a site plan review was performed in 1988.
Mr. Black inquired in reference to the soils, if it is known if the geothermal will work.
Mr. Fenton responded yes.
Mr. Wilkinson read the requirements from the Zoning Ordinance on pages 110-112 pertaining to site plan review.
Mr. Peterson stated that they have reviewed the requirements and will give complete responses to all of the items.
Mr. Black inquired if there was a plan for the change to the impervious area created by the new roof addition. Mr. Black inquired if the parcel meets the current storm water management criteria.
Mr. Marshall stated that they will be adding a storm water system with the new addition.
Mr. Black stated that if the existing storm water management system does not meet today’s standards it should be upgraded during the additions.
Mr. Peterson stated that the money coming for the new project will not pay for the entire campus improvements.
Mr. Black stated that the roof adds to the impervious surface, but the plan accommodates it. However, he questioned if the school currently meets today’s stormwater requirements. Mr. Black stated that if there are problems now, the addition could make it worse.
Alan Grattidge, Town Supervisor, thanked all for coming in early to the Planning Board. Mr. Grattidge stated that there are two complex issues. Mr. Grattidge suggested getting the Town engineer on board early for a professional opinion as to what are the areas of concern. Mr. Grattidge also suggested starting to educate the public on what is going on.
Mr. Hodgkins inquired as to where the construction entrance would be located.
Mr. Marshall stated that the entrance already exists, it is the second entrance to the main campus. Mr. Marshall stated that there are 5 total entrances off of Lake Hill Road and they plan to use the entrance west of the main exit, on the side of the campus and side of the building.
Mr. Black inquired if the new addition would be on a slab.
Mr. Marshall responded yes.
Mr. Black stated that the engineering review comes about during the approval process and is funded by an escrow account. Mr. Black inquired as to the funding source.
Mr. Grattidge suggested setting up the escrow account beforehand.
Mr. Peterson stated that they will get back to the Board to let the Board know if they can do an escrow if they get SED approval.
Mr. Black stated that the Board does not see any red flags. Mr. Black stated that the concerns have been discussed. Mr. Black stated that it would be nice to have a survey of the entire parcel to document any things that may have changed but the Board will not require it. Mr. Black stated that in order to expand, the increase in students warrants insuring the existing site and facilities are current to the existing regulations and standards. Mr. Black stated that the Board would need documentation showing that is so. Mr. Black stated that the Board would like the opinions of the town water department, police department and fire department.
Mr. Black commented that the classroom building was starting to look like a modern structure that does not fit the character of Charlton. This type of concern has been raised by the public before.
Mr. Acunto stated that the addition will not be visable from the front.
Mr. Acunto inquired about the escrow account for the Town engineer.
Mr. Black stated that the Board would need more complete information to send to the Town engineer. Mr. Black stated that once more complete full size drawings are received, the Board will provide the information to Mr. McNamara and ask for an estimate.
Mr. Acunto stated that the design team plans on the end of the year.
Mr. Peterson inquired once the engineer responds is another pre-application conference necessary.
Mr. Black stated that if there are issues, then yes.
Ms. Szurek inquired about lighting.
Mr. Peterson stated that there will be zero tolerance for light pollution.
Mr. Fenton stated that the architect has just hired an expert in lighting.
Mr. Marshall submitted two full size survey maps to the Board. One will be sent to Mr. McNamara and one will be filed at Town Hall.
ZBA Referral
None
Zoning Administrator Report
Mr. LaFountain provided his report for September, 2008. The Board reviewed the report.
Correspondence
Mr. Black stated that there is a training opportunity on November 7, 2008. Mr. Black stated that the annual Planning conference is going to be on January 28, 2009. Mr. Black asked that the members let Mrs. York know if they are interested in attending either training opportunity.
Town Board Liaison
Mr. Black informed Mrs. Verola that the Board met with the consultant regarding the electronic needs of the Planning Board.
Mr. Black gave Mrs. Verola information on a study of Charlton from the Capital District Transportation Committee.
Mrs. Wood proposed sending letters to the applicants after they have met with the Board to summarize the Board’s requests and/or information required for the next meeting. There was no decision to implement this practice.
Mr. Mitchell made the motion to adjourn the meeting. Mr. Kadlecek seconded the motion. All were in favor.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted,
Kimberly A. Caron
Recording Secretary
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