Town of Charlton
Planning Board Minutes
784 Charlton Road
Charlton, New York 12019
Minutes of Planning Board Meeting – February 18, 2008
Acting Chairman Jay Wilkinson called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. at the John W. Taylor Hall.
Present: Jay Wilkinson, Acting Chairman, Constance Wood, John Kadlecek, Mark Hodgkins, Dawn Szurek, Mike Armer, Mike Channel, Esq., Acting Planning Board Attorney, Susan York, Planning Board clerk and Kimberly Caron, Recording Secretary.
AGENDA MEETING:
Minutes
Mr. Wilkinson asked for comments on the draft of the January meeting minutes. Mrs. York previously provided comments via mail. Mr. Wilkinson provided a comment. No other comments were presented.
Public Hearings
Mr. Wilkinson stated that there are no Public Hearings.
Clute/Herrin (236-1-39.112 and 236-1-40.2)
Mr. Wilkinson stated that this is a lot line change. Mr. Wilkinson stated that the Board is expecting certain documentation and information this evening. Mr. Wilkinson stated that the County has responded and has approved of this lot line change. Mr. Wilkinson stated that at the last meeting the Board asked for the standard notes to be added to the drawing.
Jones (224-1-1)
Mr. Wilkinson stated that this is a subdivision at the western edge of Charlton on the Galway border. Mr. Wilkinson stated that Mrs. York has drafted a letter for the Board to refer this matter to the Town of Galway.
Mr. Kadlecek raised the issue of wetlands. Mr. Kadlecek stated that the wetland has a 50-foot setback on Lot 1 but if this is a DEC wetland there needs to be a 100-foot setback.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that he would like the map to be modified to show the wetlands on the property and also to add the contour lines that are on another map.
Mrs. Wood stated that this is a very important wetland area and that the setback should be increased. Mrs. Wood stated that there was a study conducted on that area. Mrs. Wood stated that she contacted Blue Neils for information but he was not available.
Mr. Kadlecek suggested that when this application is sent to the County for review to ask if there are special considerations.
Mr. Armer stated that the map says that there has been no wetland delineation done.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the applicant would need to show the wetlands and put the appropriate buffers on it.
Mrs. Wood stated that there are prehistoric plants and that the area is very significant. Mrs. Wood has a Master Thesis written about the Consaulis Vly that she intends to share with Blue Neils when she consults with him.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the Board would refer this to the County and ask the applicant for more data.
Mr. Hodgkins stated that the perc test pits are shown on the drawing but there is no information on the results.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the Board would ask for the perc test information be added to the drawing and that a curb cut note be added to the drawing.
Kilichowski/Metz (237-1-1.1)
Mrs. Metz will be appearing before the Board. Mr. Wilkinson stated that there is an affidavit in the file from the Kilichowski’s allowing the Metz’s to speak on their behalf.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that in 2007 this matter has been before the Board before.
Mr. Armer stated that in a letter from the ECC from last year it was noted that there would be disturbance of the wetlands. Mr. Armer read the letter to the Board.
The Board reviewed the drawing.
Mr. Armer stated that the ECC wanted DEC and ACOE delineations because they felt that there were more wetlands than the DEC map showed.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the new plan provided is better than the previously withdrawn plan.
Mr. Armer stated that the building envelope is on the peak.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the drawing needs the standard notes including the driveway note for long driveways. There is also no signature block for the chairman to sign and the perc test data is missing. Mr. Wilkinson stated that engineering review will need to be done and the wetlands issue will have to be addressed. Mr. Wilkinson stated that the location of the beaver pond is also needed.
Mr. Kadlecek inquired if wetland delineation was needed.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that if the applicants are going to put a house where it is proposed it would be nice to know where the wetland comes and put a buffer to be sure it meets all of the setbacks.
Mrs. Wood stated that the application lists no AG properties but thinks that Joel Landis has a hay operation that needs to be listed. Mrs. Wood stated that this would also need to be referred to the County as it is in the AG district.
Aabo (247-1-24.11)
Mr. Wilkinson stated that this is pretty straightforward.
Mr. Armer inquired if the applicants live in the property adjacent.
Mrs. Wood stated yes on Lot 1. Mrs. Wood stated that the applicant needs to list Albert LaRue as an operating farm under the AG data statement.
Mr. Kadlecek stated that the drawing needs perc test data.
Mrs. Wood stated that in the proposed house location, the septic is located in the front yard. Mrs. Wood stated that the Board likes to discourage this and the preference is by the rear. Mrs. Wood stated that the Board has allowed this when there is no other choice.
Mr. LaFountain stated that there is no distance listed between the well and septic separation.
Mr. Hodgkins inquired where else the septic could be placed.
Mrs. Wood stated that it looks like there is a lot of room on the lot.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the standard notes are on the drawing but they are not the Town’s wording and would have to be changed.
Heflin/Durst (255-1-40.1, 41, 43.1, 43.2, 43.3)
Mr. Wilkinson stated that this is a placeholder as this matter is on hold.
ZBA Referral
Witt Construction/Tarella (246-4-2 & 246-4-3)
Mr. Wilkinson stated that this application has been withdrawn.
Reports
Mr. Wilkinson stated that there would be standard reports.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that there is an upcoming conference that some of the Board members have already signed up for.
Mr. Kadlecek requested that all Planning Board members receive a copy of the Stormwater Law as adopted by the Town.
The meeting was closed at 7:30 p.m.
BUSINESS MEETING
Opened at 7:31 p.m. with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that there is a quorum of six members.
Minutes
Mr. Wilkinson made the motion to approve the draft of the January 21, 2008 minutes with changes incorporated. Mr. Kadlecek seconded the motion. All were in favor.
Clute/Herrin (236-1-39.112 and 236-1-40.2)
Deb Herrin and Lisa and Kevin Daviero appeared before the Board and provided revised drawings.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that all of the standard notes had been added to the drawing. Mr. Wilkinson stated that the response from the County has been received and they responded no significant Countywide or Inter Community impact.
Mr. Wilkinson made the motion to accept the lot line change as a complete application as Resolution 2008-04 and authorize the chairman to sign the mylars. Mr. Kadlecek seconded the motion. All were in favor.
Resolution 2008-04 was made .
Mr. LaFountain inquired about deep hole tests.
Mr. Daviero stated that they have been done and provided Mr. LaFountain with a copy of the information.
Mrs. York provided the filing instructions to the applicants.
Jones (224-1-1)
Edward and Thomas Jones appeared before the Board.
Edward Jones stated that the plan is to build on the end of the bedrock ledge. Mr. Jones explained the lay of the land to the Board. Mr. Jones stated that they are proposing building the house 100 feet from the road and 300 feet from the water line, which is the beaver pond. Mr. Jones stated that they have shown where the beaver pond is on the map and also showed where the wetlands are located. Mr. Jones stated that the existing house is unlivable.
Mr. LaFountain questioned the location of the land.
Mr. Jones stated that the house would be on the Town line.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the test pit information would need to be shown on the map.
Thomas Jones stated that the engineer had the information.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the question of where the wetlands were located has been answered. Mr. Wilkinson stated that the curb cut note would need to be added to the drawing and the test pit information would needed to be added to the drawing. Mr. Wilkinson stated that the Board would refer the application to the Town engineer for review.
Mrs. York provided the Jones’ with a copy of the standard notes.
Mrs. York stated that the application would need to be referred to the County and to the Town of Galway.
Mr. Wilkinson inquired if there was farmed land on the property.
Mr. Jones stated that there are 18 acres rented out to the Bagdan’s for farming.
Mr. LaFountain stated that the Board should have the test pit information before sending the application to the engineer.
Mr. Wilkinson asked the applicants to add the contour lines from the second drawing to the map so that it was all in one. Mr. Wilkinson asked for the setbacks to also be included.
Mrs. Wood stated that the Board should also talk to Blue Neils about the significance of the wetlands.
Mr. Jones stated that of the 122 acres, 60 acres are wetlands and 20 acres are considered the border area because it is slightly above level.
Mr. Kadlecek stated that if the wetlands are DEC then there needs to be a 100-foot setback.
Mr. Jones stated that would not be a problem.
Mr. Hodgkins stated that the well is not shown on the drawing.
Mr. Armer inquired if there was an existing well.
Mr. Thomas Jones stated that the well is located 50 feet from the northern edge.
Mr. Wilkinson asked for the well to be shown on the drawing.
Mr. Armer questioned why the line ended here (showing in drawing).
Mr. Thomas Jones stated that he asked the surveyor to stop at the edge of the beaver pond.
Mr. Wilkinson pulled out the DEC map for the Board to review.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the Board would need a revised drawing before sending the application on to the Town engineer. Mr. Wilkinson stated that the revised map would need to show the setbacks, the perc test data, the well location, the curb cut note and the contour lines from the subdivided piece.
Mr. LaFountain inquired if the deep hole test pit was 6 foot down.
Mr. Jones stated that it was 4 feet down. Mr. Jones stated that the engineer had said that they would probably have to add an additional 18 inches of soil to the septic.
Mr. LaFountain inquired if an engineering escrow had been funded yet.
Mrs. York stated not yet. Mrs. York stated that once the engineer looks at the information he sends out a letter requesting an escrow amount and whatever monies are left over will be refunded.
Mr. LaFountain stated that if the applicants get the engineering for the septic system now it will save time and money at the time of obtaining the building permit.
Mrs. Wood stated that the Board would send the information to Blue Neils for his input.
Mr. LaFountain stated that he thinks the wetland is substantial and has grown over the years.
Mr. Jones stated that it has not gotten that much bigger as the beaver dam set a border.
Mr. LaFountain suggested having a wetland delineation.
The Board discussed having the wetlands delineated.
Mr. Wilkinson suggested that the applicants contact DEC to get on the list for having a wetland delineation.
Mrs. York will hold off on the referrals to the County, the Town of Galway and the engineer until the Board has received a completed map and has determined the application to be complete.
Mrs. Wood will contact Blue Neils to see if he has any information about the study done previously.
Kilichowski/Metz (237-1-1.1)
Lynette Metz appeared before the Board.
Mrs. Metz stated that the plan is to take a 60-acre parcel of land and subdivide it into three 20-acre parcels. Mrs. Metz stated that they would be retaining the southern portion 20 acre lot and that the Kilichowski’s would retain the other two 20 acre lots. [The application requests one new 20 acre parcel, leaving one 40 acre remaining parcel].
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the drawing is missing the standard notes for well and septic. Mr. Wilkinson explained the note pertaining to long driveways that would need to be added to the drawing. Mr. Wilkinson stated that a signature block for the chairman to sign also needed to be added and the perc test information would need to be added.
Mrs. York gave Mrs. Metz a copy of the standard notes and Mr. LaFountain provided her with the driveway information.
Mrs. Metz stated that for the perc tests they had a 6-foot test pit done.
Mr. Armer stated that the map does not show that information.
Mrs. Metz had a drawing that had additional information on it. Mrs. Metz stated that they had the soil boring done.
Mr. Wilkinson read the information.
Mr. LaFountain explained that the deep hole test was a soil profile. Mr. LaFountain stated that a perc test is what the soil’s ability to absorb water is in the location that the fields going to be in.
Mrs. Metz stated that as pertains to the well, they have no plans to build on the lot for about 2 years or so. Mrs. Metz stated that they are purchasing the lot contingent on a well being drilled and the availability of water. Mrs. Metz stated that the well is going to be proposed because they want the subdivision to be approved before they spend money on the well.
Mr. LaFountain stated that the Board would like to make sure that the proposed well is 100 feet minimum from the septic field.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the Board was concerned with the wetland delineation in the back.
Mrs. Metz explained the wetlands.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that there would be no wetlands issue if there is a 25-foot drop.
Mr. Armer stated that the ECC letter from the previous subdivision had a concern. Mr. Armer read the letter from the ECC dated April 9, 2007. A copy of the letter is annexed hereto as Attachment 1. Mr. Armer stated that the letter stated that the wetland was bigger than shown of the DEC map.
Mr. Kadlecek stated that the requirement is that there be no disturbance of the soil within 100 feet. Mr. Kadlecek stated that putting a 100-foot buffer to the wetland there will be no disturbance.
Mrs. Metz stated that she could add the 100-foot buffer.
Mrs. York provided Mrs. Metz with a copy of the ECC letter. Mrs. York explained that it was from a prior subdivision that had been withdrawn. Mrs. York stated that the Board sent the application to the ECC for review before the application was withdrawn.
Mrs. Wood stated that the Landis hay operation would have to be included on the AG data statement.
Mrs. Metz stated that she would add it.
Mrs. Metz questioned if she could plant hay and trees in the area.
The Board agreed yes as long as within the zoning requirements.
Mrs. York stated that the application copies as submitted were missing side 2 and that she had to correct the copies. Mrs. York asked Mrs. Metz if her copy was complete, and it was. Mrs. Metz had not filled out the application. Mrs. York showed Mrs. Metz the AG Data Statement where she would need to add the Landis farm.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that once the Board received the revised drawing it would be forwarded to the Town engineer to be reviewed.
Mr. Wilkinson reviewed what the Board was asking for, the addition of the standard notes, the setbacks to the wetlands, the driveway note, the perc test information and the signature block.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the referrals to the engineer and the County would wait until the new maps are received and the Planning Board could determine the application to be complete.
Mrs. Metz inquired as to how much would be required to set up the engineering escrow.
Mrs. York stated that the engineer usually asks for a $500.00 escrow but would notify her by letter of the exact amount.
Aabo (247-1-24.11)
Torben Aabo appeared before the Board.
Mr. Aabo stated that the proposal is for a 2-lot subdivision. Mr. Aabo stated that he lives in the house on Lot 1 and would like to build a house on Lot 2 to live in and then his daughter would own Lot 1. Mr. Aabo showed that the proposed well location was 61 feet from there and 52 feet from there. Mr. Aabo stated that the front of the house is going to be north. Mr. Aabo stated that the septic system is at a proposed location until they see if they can get the well in before they locate the septic. Mr. Aabo stated that the way it is drawn is that it would be located on the side of the house.
The Board reviewed the drawings.
Mrs. Wood stated that Albert LaRue’s name would have to be added to the AG data statement because property is being rented to a farmer.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the standard notes are on the drawing but the wording is off a little.
Mr. Aabo stated that he would give a copy of Charlton’s standard notes to the surveyor.
Ms. Szurek asked for a 1-inch scale to be added to the drawing.
Mr. Aabo stated he would have that added.
Mr. Wilkinson inquired if perc tests had been done.
Mr. Aabo stated he had not had the tests done yet.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the perc test data is a requirement of approval.
Mr. Aabo stated that he wanted to drill the well first, which would probably not be until end of March or early April.
Mr. LaFountain inquired about the soil.
Mr. Aabo stated that the soil is heavy and sandy and that there is some clay also.
Mr. Aabo stated that Albert LaRue would be drilling the hole.
Mr. Wilkinson asked Mr. Aabo to make the changes and come back next month.
Mr. Aabo stated that he was under the impression that he could wait until the time of the building permit to have the perc tests done.
Mr. Wilkinson read page 17 of the Zoning Ordinance.
Mr. Wilkinson reviewed what the Board was asking for, Charlton’s standard notes, change to the AG data statement, perc test information, well location distances and the 1 inch scale on the drawing. Mr. Wilkinson said that the referrals to the engineer and County would wait until the new maps were received and the Planning Board could determined the application to be complete.
Heflin/Durst (255-1-40.1,41,43.1,43.2,43.3)
No one representing this matter appeared.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that there has been no action and this is a placeholder.
Witt Construction/Tarella (246-4-2 & 246-4-3)
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the referral and application for a building lot has been withdrawn and that a new application would be before the Board at a later time for a lot line change.
Zoning Administrator Report
Mr. LaFountain provided the report for January 2008 and reviewed it with the Board.
Correspondence
Mr. Wilkinson stated that on February 28, 2008 there is going to be an American Farmland Trust Conference.
Mr. York stated that Mrs. and Mr. Wood, Mr. Kadlecek, Ms. Szurek, Mr. Mitchell and Mr. Black would be attending.
Town Board Liaison
Mrs. Verola was not present.
The Board discussed topics from the Planning Conference.
Mr. Wilkinson made the motion to adjourn the meeting. Mr. Kadlecek seconded the motion. All were in favor.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted,
Kimberly A. Caron
Recording Secretary
Ray Black, Chairman April 9, 2007
Town of Charlton Planning Board
1410 Division Street Attachment 1
Charlton, NY 12019
Subject: Kilichowski Subdivision Application
The subject application from Ronald and Francine Kilichowski to subdivide a 60 acre parcel on Peaceable Street into five lots was reviewed by the Charlton Environmental Conservation Commission at its March 27, 2007 meeting. The Planning Board asked the ECC to review plans for subdividing this land into five lots consisting of four 6-7 acre properties and one horse farm parcel of 33 acres. The 33 acre lot would use an existing driveway while the other four lots would have shared driveways (one road cut serving two lots).
The ECC notes that there are liability and legal issues associated with shared driveways. These should be addressed before any final action on the application.
The note from Dean Durst that accompanied the application states that “There are no DEC wetlands on the property, and several ACE (Army Corps of Engineers) wetland areas. ACE has been contacted to flag the federal wetland areas once the snow melts. It is anticipated that a disturbance permit will be required for at least one of the driveways.”
The ECC recommends that the Planning Board should request that the USACE and the NYS DEC should both perform a wetland delineation on the parcel. DEC wetland B-51, that runs through the Corbin property fronting on Maple Avenue, is just behind the property in question and actually appears to be much more extensive than shown on the DEC wetlands map. Furthermore, a pond shown on the map, and nearby individual wetlands, such as those mentioned by Mr. Durst, do not have to be connected to the DEC designated wetland to be considered contiguous and, therefore, part of the jurisdictional wetland.
The ECC wishes to again note that there have been several recent applications for subdivisions that, if granted, could disturb wetlands and streams. As the ECC’s previous reviews have stated, even if state and federal agencies are not concerned with the disturbance of a specific wetland, the ECC believes that Charlton has an obligation to future owners of such properties and should not condone these actions on properties that may be, at best, marginal building sites. At a minimum, Charlton should require mitigation or offsets for any wetland disturbance. The ECC also believes that protection of Charlton’s watercourses should be a priority in all such reviews.
If we can be of any further help on this matter feel free to contact me at 399-4161.
Marvin M. Schorr, Chairman
Town of Charlton Environmental Conservation Commission
cc: ECC members
D. Salisbury
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