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Board of Finance Minutes Public Hearing 6/16/2008
Board of Finance Public Hearing
June 16, 2008

1.      CHAIR BOARD OF FINANCE:  Thomas Harrison
Chairman Harrison:  Is this on?  Okay.  If everybody could take their seats, we will get started.  Thank you all for coming.  My name is Tom Harrison.  I am the Chair of the Board of Finance.  The Board of Finance is the one that is conducting tonight’s hearing, so first, I would like to take the opportunity to introduce the other members of our Board.  Proceeding to my right, Brett Eisenlohr, Tom Gugliotti, Bill Hooper, Jim Speich, Cathy Durdan and Margaret Bratton is on her way.  And, Phil Schenck is the Town Manager.  I am sure you all know him.  Well, we have to stop meeting this way.  That is what I am hearing in some of the e-mails.  This is our third budget referendum.  We are finally going to get into the groove of how these things work.  We are going to have a slide presentation and the other two Boards will also.  Then we will take public comments.  And as always, we will stay as late as need be.  We would like just to give everyone a chance to speak first, so we will ask you to keep your remarks to 3-4 minutes at the opening.  And when you do speak, we have a microphone here in the front and there is one just behind the projection thing there.  If you would give your name and your address so the minutes can reflect who is speaking.  Procedurally, this may be the last opportunity for all of us to meet in this kind of session for a public hearing.  And this, under our Charter, as I think all of you know by now, the Charter allows no more than three votes on a proposed budget.  If the budget is not approved on the third vote, and that will take place a week from Wednesday, on the 25th, under accommodation of things in the Charter and State law, the Town Attorney has provided an opinion a couple of years ago when we went through this, that once three budgets are defeated, the Town Council then has the authority to set the budget.  It can be increased, it can be decreased, it can stay the same as the one that was defeated a third time, but they have the full authority to set the budget.  So, this upcoming referendum on the 25th would be the last opportunity that the voters have to speak out on the budget.  I believe that the Council would probably take action, if it comes to that, maybe within a day or two of that referendum.  We will have to do that because the fiscal year closes June 30th and we need to have a budget in place, or we would like to have the budget in place before the end of the school year, I’m sorry, the fiscal year.  So, this is the last chance for all of us, if you are getting tired of everybody meeting like this, you won’t have to go through this until next year.  Next year, to give you a sneak preview, you all know that will be the impact of the revaluation, and if 2004 is any guide, that could sometimes lead to some controversy.  We saw this year, Farmington went through that.  They had two referendums defeated.  The revaluation will take place this summer and the results of that, whatever changes are in the market and assessed value of your home, that will come into play for the budget for the next fiscal year, and as I said, that too could be a controversial session.  Anyway, that is where we are.  We will start off with a very brief slide presentation explaining and outlining how the budget that is before you tonight got to be there.  Blythe, if you could get that cranked up, we will turn out some of these lights.  The first budget requests that came in at the end of March, they called for a combined level of spending that would have required a tax increase of 8.02%.  The Board of Finance adjusted those budget requests and proposed, for the first referendum, the reduced spending level that needed a tax increase of 5.75%.  The voters rejected that.  We went through the process a second time and make some further reductions of the spending and recommended to you a budget that had a tax increase of 4.5%.  That too was defeated.  We went through the process once again, made some additional reductions, and I will explain that matter in just a moment, and the budget that’s on the table for this hearing is one that would call for a tax increase of 3.84%.  Now, Blythe, if you could show the first slide please.  I would like to explain how we got there.  The Board of Finance was not unanimous in getting to this result, but I will explain how we go to it.  We started with the premise that all throughout the 90’s and the last four years that budget were approved, the voters expressed a strong preference for a tax increase around 3%.  The last four approved budgets, beginning with the third referendum of ’04 and continuing through last year, the average tax increase, for those four budgets, was 2.9%.  So, we started with that.  We would see how much money a tax increase, a mill rate increase of 2.9%, combined with other revenues that the Town has, license fees, permit fees, State grants and so forth.  How much would a 2.9% tax increase add and that comes out to $69.8 million.  Then the rational was, your expenses have gone up, so have the Towns.  Everybody is paying more for electric, utilities; the Town is paying more for water for the fire hydrants, gasoline is well over $4 a gallon.  So, there was a suggestion that we start with the 2.9%, which is the number that the voters have approved in the past, and we put in, let’s call it inflation adjustments for around $125,000 additional, over what a 2.9% increase would raise.  We then have, and this number has been out there for several years, the Avon High School addition that the voters approved a couple of years ago, that will be coming online, the school year beginning at the end of August.  And the Board of Education has disclosed, and this number has been used constantly since then, that the onetime only increase to operate the school with the new areas would be about $418,000.  So, we started at 2.9%, then a little inflation adjustment, factored in the onetime only cost increase because of the high school addition, that’s an addition of $543,000 over the amount that the 2.9% increase would raise.  So, I don’t know if you can see the bottom here.  What that is, is combined spending of $70.3 million, which would require a tax increase of 3.84%.  So, what that does is get a tax increase higher than what most of us are used to, but it is in the 3 percent range at least that the voters have been comfortable with in the past.  This takes care of the onetime increase that the Board of Ed has, and it gets us just a shade above $70 million.  Blythe, next one please.  This gives you the history of the spending reductions that the Board of Finance has made since the original budget requests were submitted in March.  And you can see from the March submission for the first referendum, were reduced from the Council’s side $372,000, $692,000 from the Board of Ed.  When the first budget went down, we made some further reductions and for the budget that is on the table tonight, we made some additional reductions.  Blythe, is there any way you can raise that a little bit?  Just lift if up for a second or two.  The total spending reductions on the Town side are $648,000 and on the Board of Ed side, one and a half million, $1.5 million.  And you can see the percentages there.  That’s good, Blythe.  Thank you.  You have it in the handouts anyway.  So, you can see that we have made over, almost $2.2 million in spending reductions from those that were proposed by the Council and the Board of Education by the end of March.  That is a significant reduction.  It is going to have some impacts, some negative impacts.  There is no way we can avoid that and nobody is trying to pretend otherwise.  But, it is a significant dollar reduction.  It gets us a tax increase in the 3.8 range.  It will be the last opportunity that all of us, collectively as voters, have to decide if this is a level that we support or not.  As I said, after this, if this is defeated, it is up to the Council and the Council could go either way.  They could increase it, they could decrease it, whatever.  But, that is how we got there.  This traces the reductions that we have made, and, Blythe, if you could go to the next one.  These are the new numbers now.  If the budget is approved, you could see on the Town Operating Budget, there is a $738,000 increase and John Carlson is going to discuss that.  The Board of Ed has a $2.4 million increase or about 6.1% increase, sewers are in there, but as you all know, they are funded separately.  They do not come out of the property tax.  Debt Service that is going up because of projects we have all approved.  The Capital Improvement Projects were reduced a little bit.  So, the total spending now in the current year, it is $66.5.  It is going up to $70.3.  That is about a $3.8 million spending increase combined through all sources.  And the spending increase is 5.78% and that will play back as a tax increase of 3.84% because there are other revenues as I have said.  Blythe.  This is the tax impact, and again, we are using the median assessed values.  You know that homes are assessed at 70% of the market value and this is based upon the median assessed value of $202,000.  That sometimes surprises people when they see the median market value of about $290,000.  People think about the mansions, that it should be higher, but that is, in fact, the market value and median assessed value.  That house in the middle will pay a tax increase, if this budget in approved, of $219.  That is how much the property tax will go up with this budget.  So, to summarize it, we have a tax increase of 5.78%, or about $3.8 million over the current year.  That is $2.2 million less than what was initially requested, so you can see we have made some serious reductions that reflect the votes taken at the two votes.  We did not have a big increase of the Grand List this year.  We talked about that.  It’s about one and a half percent and that was factored in, so we didn’t get the bump that we customarily get from the growth of the Grand List.  Um, the mill rate will be, if this is approved, 26.53, so it’s not quite the full 1 mill increase.  So, it will be less than a mill, but pretty close to it.  As I said, the tax increase will be 3.84%.  So, that is where we are at this stage.  This is the last chance that we will have to vote on it collectively.  There are $2.2 million in reductions and the tax increase is at the 3.84% and the next, it is obviously up to the voters.  I am going to call on the Council and the Board of Ed in a moment, but our Board of Finance secretary, Tom Gugliotti has asked if he could have the microphone for a few well chosen and I am sure inspiring words.  So, Tom, do you want to come up and inspire us or whatever?

Tom Gugliotti:  Do you all know who Monty Python is?  Monty Python says and now for something entirely different.  That’s me.  Tom, thank you and I thank all of you for indulging me for a few minutes.   I just want to offer a few remarks if I could.  Out of pure coincidence, I was traveling back from a wedding in Rhode Island this week and I was driving through the area of Route 6.  Have you ever gone that way, out towards Providence, Route 6?  What I always do, on Route 6, maybe 10 miles from the Connecticut border, and honest to goodness, you can go check this out for yourself, there is an outdoor advertising sign on Route 6, ten miles before the Connecticut border and in big letters is says, move to Connecticut, lower taxes, better schools.  That is what is says.  I am here just to ask a couple of things from everyone.  I sort of want to speak in defense of all those who have worked so hard on the budget.  I and others have been at all of these meetings and we have listened to the public comment and we get lots and lots of e-mails and everyone’s comments and e-mails I know are heartfelt and sincere, but no one has yet offered a remark or two, and that is what I would like to do in defense, if you will, of those who tried to put these budgets together.  I want to assure you and I hope you take it to heart, that no one who is involved in this budget process wants to do anyone any harm.  No one who is involved in preparing these budgets takes delight or pleasure in raising taxes.  None of us likes going to the gas station and paying more each weeks, going to the grocery store and paying more, none of us likes to raise taxes.  I want to assure you and I hope you will believe me, that everybody who is involved, top to bottom, and there are many many professional people who are involved in this, try very hard to come up with the very best and the lowest possible budget.  Two things, the best and the lowest.  Not just the lowest, not just the best, but the best and lowest.  And I know that some folks are critical of Board of Finance members, myself perhaps a supreme example of that, for not wanting to chop the budgets even in larger increments than we have so far.  But here we are, we are down to a pretty low number.  As Tom pointed out in one of the slides, it is 2.9% before you take into effect inflation, which we have no control over, and the new school, which we have no control over.  For everybody on our Board, whether they, where ever we were on this recent vote, the Board of Finance has had the best interest of Avon at heart and that is key.  At the last Workshop, it was thrown out, the suggestion for discussion purposes, anybody think we should go to zero increase?  Do any of you in the room think it should be zero?  You don’t have to answer that.  I suspect some of you would say yes and some would say no, but in our discussion, should we go to zero?  Well, of course not because that would be detrimental to the Town.  There is some level below which you start to harm the Town as a whole.  It may help me personally, but it would hurt the Town as a whole.  You start to see things in the newspaper, there are things that are coming out of these budgets, there are things that the Town of Avon will no longer do, will no longer provide, it is incremental, things are coming out about projects that we thought should be in there won’t be in there.  So, it has started to manifest.  You told us to cut, so we are cutting, but there will be things that need to come out.  So I would ask you all in your comments tonight a couple of things.  Keep in mind that what we are trying to get to is not the lowest budget.  That would be zero.  We are trying to get the lowest budget that is best for the Town, not just what is best for me or best for you individually, but best for the Town as a whole because eventually, that is good for all of us, property values and what not.  I can’t convince you of that by talking longer, but as you make your remarks tonight, please keep in mind that whatever you think about the budget, don’t think, please don’t say that we are not paying attention and that we don’t care or we are being callus or indifferent.  That’s not the level of discussion we want to have here tonight.  We are trying to get to a budget that is the lowest and the best budget for the Town of Avon.  Thanks.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you Tom.  Now we will call on the Boards.  Peggy, you would normally have gone next.  Are your slides ready?

Peggy Roell:  We can be ready.

Chairman Harrison:  You can be ready or you are?

Peggy Roell:  We are.

Chairman Harrison:  Oh, okay.  All right.  Do you want to go now?

Peggy Roell:  Yep.

Chairman Harrison:  Alright.  Okay.  John, is that okay with you?  Okay.  All right.  Next we are going to have a presentation by the Board of Education on how they are dealing with the proposed budget and with that, it is my pleasure to turn the microphone over to the Chairwoman of the Board of Education, Peggy Roell.

CHAIR, BOARD OF EDUCATION: Peggy Roell:  Presents revised Board of Education budget

Peggy Roell:  Right now, we are passing around the Board of Ed presentation and a list of the proposed reductions and adjustments to our budget that was discussed by our Budget Committee the other night and will be discussed by the full Board tomorrow night.  So we will wait just a second.  Thank you for your patience.  I would like to begin by introducing the other Board of Ed members that are here tonight.  As Tom Harrison said, I’m Peggy Roell, the Chair of the Board of Ed.  We have Ken Notestine, Bernadette Mayer, Angela Shelton, Barbara Zuras, Mike Eagan and Bill Stokesbury.  Does everybody have one?  Does anyone still need one?  It is one page on both sides of the proposed adjustments.  And then the slides are two pages stapled together.  Most of the slides are slides that you have seen before, so I will go through them in very high level detail.  If you have specific questions, I will be happy to answer them later on or give me a call tomorrow and I would be happy to talk you through them, but I don’t think we need to repeat everything.  We will start off by talking about the Board of Education’s Statutory responsibilities that are really by State law.  So some of the things we have to provide are provided by the requirements of State law.  Sometimes it’s hard because 93% of the revenue for running the schools comes from local funding, which is much much hirer than most other Towns in Connecticut.  This is projected enrollment for this year versus next, projected enrollment for next year, an additional 88 students of which about 31 are already here.  We don’t know, we never know exactly what grades are going to come in until sometime during the summer, so it is something that the Administration continually monitors.  One of the things that we do know this far is that the projected enrollment at Pine Grove is about 30 students less than projected, incoming kindergarteners is less than what was projected and less than it has been in the past, so there has been some discussions about moving some of the children that would have been going to Roaring Brook over to Pine Grove next year so we don’t have to add an extra half time kindergarten teacher at Roaring Brook and in starts, it’s interesting, the issues many parents at Roaring Brook have had this year about the overcrowding, perceived overcrowding at Roaring Brook.  During the last five years, our enrollment has increased about 515 students.  You can see how that compares to most of our surrounding Towns and they are much lower, even in Simsbury that has had a reduction.  This also shows the increase of pupil spending over that same period, where ours is much lower than the other Towns.  The next graph shows the same information but in graph form.  The next slide summaries, similar to one of Tom’s slides, where we have been over the last three months or two months, coming up with the current budget the way it is proposed, the Board of Ed would get a 6.13% increase and that results in having to make adjustments of about a million and a half dollars to what we originally proposed.  I just hope that it’s not a fire.  If Mr. DiPace comes running in, I will tell you all to leave.  Um, this is where we originally started with a $4 million increase.  Again, I won’t go through it in detail, but you can see that the additional costs related to the high school is part way down, here in the corner at $415,000, which Tom has rounded to $418,000 and then all of the other expenses.  From this $4 million, we need to reduce this by a million and a half.  Well, nothing has really changed other than probably 30 less kindergarteners.  The original $4 million, about 7.23%, that was just to open our doors and maintain what we have now, what we have this year, and the total increase right now is 6.13%, which we will obviously have to make some adjustments into what we are currently providing in order to get to the 6.13%.  These next two slides kind of summarize, on a high level basis, the information that is on the front and back of the one page handout.  None of these items are finalized.  Like I said, the Budget Committee discussed these last week.  There is some consensus over them, but they are all going to be discussed again tomorrow night at the Board of Ed meeting.  And we are hoping to get community input both tomorrow night and over the next few weeks.  If these are not the items you want, what different items you might like us to think about reducing.  This next page also includes reductions to offset the budget by the revenues, so the discussion about the pay to play at the high school, parking fees, parents covering the cost of graduation, as you can see in the handout, this comes up to about $1.4 million, 50 or so, we need to find another $50,000 out of this $100,000 $150,000 potential possible reductions.  And that will be discussed tomorrow night also.  This million and a half we have to reduce is after the Principals had presented budgets to the Superintendent that he, the Superintendent reduced by almost a million dollars before they ever came to the Board of Ed.  And these were all fully justified things that the Principals and the other Administration thought were necessary to maintain our schools, so in essence, we are really, from what the Principals and the other Administrators felt like we needed to properly run the schools, we will be reducing $2.5 million.  And that’s on top of the reductions that we have made in prior years, so as Tom Gugliotti was saying, that is a little bit here and a little bit there, and it’s starting to add up.  We just want to highlight again, for the last ten years or so, both the Town and the Board of Ed have entered into both initiatives between the Board of Ed and Town and with other school districts and Towns, whatever we can do to find ways to save money.  Gary Franzi, our Finance Director, meets with his peers from ten neighboring school districts on a monthly basis to share ideas and to try to find different ways we can collaborate with that on money saving activities that the other districts are doing.  This is just more of the items that we are doing over the Town and also with other school districts.  Thank you.  I hope you all support this revised budget.  It’s not the best and everything we’ve hoped for, but it’s the best we have now.  Thank you.

Calls on Chairman Town Council to present the revised Town Council, Sewer, Debt Service and
Capital Improvement Budget for FY 2008/2009

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Peggy.  As always a very thorough presentation.  Next, we will call on the Town Council to present its information on how it is going to deal with the proposed budget.  And to do that, I would like to introduce the Chairman of the Town Council, John Carlson.

Presents the revised Town Council Sewer, Debt Service and Capital Improvement Budget for FY
2008/2009

John Carlson:  Thank you, Tom.  While we are making the switch over in technology there, let me take a moment to thank Town staff for their diligent work in preparation of the budget.  I would also like to introduce the members of the Town Council.  They are all here this evening.  I will start from front to back, Pam Samul, Mark Zacchio, Bill Shea, and where is, David Pena.  And welcome.  This evening’s budget presentation, I promise, may be the shortest that I have ever given, which should be to the delight of most, but not all in the room.  Our budget requests from the Board of Finance was to reduce our budget by $95,494.  That is over the previously submitted budget, so we cut it out of two areas.  Could you go to the next slide please?  First, we cut out a lawn mower for $10,000.  Before we all get into a panic, these are not the little lawnmowers that I push around my yard.  They are field mowers, quite large and very expensive.  Note that we have moved to outsource some of our lawn mowing.  We can’t do it all, or outsource all of it, for a variety of reasons, but we have moved to do so.  And so, I think that this is one of the things that you, the Town public, has requested that we do.  But, in so doing, we also run into Union considerations and other issues.  And right now, as a result of this work, we have gotten some push back from the Unions on this and we may end up into an arbitration hearing and we may end up back here in a year from now saying we need to buy a new lawnmower.  So, there is some risk in so doing.  The second item, and I have held fast in regard to, that when you cut out Capital budget items, they don’t go away, they come back later on.  And this Chidsey Brook Road drainage project, which we have cut $84,000 out of the budget, almost $85,000, um, we have not taken it out completely.  We are keeping in approximately $15,000 to do engineering and site work in the upcoming budget year and then the remaining $85,000 will come back at some point in the future and at that point, we will be competing against all of the other Capital projects.  On a night like tonight, with all of the rain coming down, this is a project that, frankly, needs to be done.  It is a question of timing and prior authorization, and we felt that this was one that we could move out another year.  To summarize here, the Town budget request is a 4.22% increase over the previous year.  The sewer budget is up considerably at 54%, um, but that is funded through sewer fees.  The Debt Service budget is up 4.3%, or 4.29% to be exact.  Please note that that is a legal obligation of the Town.  We all entered into that obligation when we voted for a variety of referendums over the last 20 years, and it shows up in our debt line and it needs to be serviced and that increase is 4.29%.  Unfortunately, we are taking the Capital budget line item down there by 10.73%.  I say unfortunately because I do repeat myself.  Having need for a number of these projects over the next few years, it is just a question of timing.  So, with that said, the Town control side of this budget request is going up by 5.24% over the previous year’s budget.  Thank you very much and I will turn it back over to Mr. Harrison.

Calls upon the audience for questions and comments and directs questions to the proper official

Chairman Harrison:  Okay.  Now we will get to the public hearing part of it.  While the Board of Finance members are working their way back up, I would like to elaborate on a couple of statements that Tom Gugliotti made.  The hearing that we had before the second budget, I was a little concerned because some of that really got off the point.  The purpose of the hearing, really, is to have the voters speak out about the budget, not about different groups in Town with which they may disagree, not about individuals with whom they may have a gripe with.  And we had a little bit more than I think we needed because what we really need is zero.  But we had a little bit of a diversion with people questioning the motives of folks that were on the other side, either side of the budget.  So, what I would like tonight, this is Avon and we do things a little bit differently here from a lot of the other Towns, and I would like to get back to that.  So, tonight, say everything you want to say about the budget, it stinks, it’s great, whatever you want to say, but focus on the budget, whether you think the voters should support it or not, but let’s stay away from questioning people’s motives or questioning why they are doing certain things.  That really does not have a place here.  And, if you do kind of get off track and start going on to something, I will interrupt and ask you to get back on the circuit that you should be on because this is really a hearing on the proposed budget, not anything else.  With that said now, the ground rules as I say, we have two microphones.  Feel free to use either one and identify yourself by name and where you live and we will try to give 3-4 minutes for the first time around, then if we have time at the end, which we probably will, if you want to say something else, you can do that.  But, we want to give everybody who wants to speak at least a chance to speak once.  So, with that, who wants to be the first to speak?  Any volunteers?  Somebody has to go first.  Yes, the gentleman on this side.

Keith Chambers, 24 Wellington Heights Road:  This is my first time being here.  I am an American and I am proud to be an American and I am proud to live in Avon.  I take great pride in the people who run our Town.  I think that they do a great job.  Our 11-year-old made the comment that he was going to lose his Spanish teacher because of the budget.  That made me think about what we are doing.  I don’t want to make a passionate speech, but…(inaudible)…the first budget that came through, we have reduced the average tax burden by $20 and I am kind of appalled.  The fact that we have gone through all of these discussions and votings, it seems insignificant to me.  It is kind of like the vote no signs you put in your yard or simply filling up your car, and I am just amazed that we have managed to delay this process so long to really save money and then to impact…(inaudible)…the children of Avon.  The biggest thing that made me proud about Avon is that last week, on Monday and Tuesday, when all of the surrounding schools closed down because their school could not cope with the warm weather and our kids stayed in school, which says to me that our kids have a great place to learn and that they are going to be comfortable.  I would urge you to take the budget back to where it was.  I don’t see any reason why it has to go down.  I think you should take it back to the first level and let’s focus on that one. Thank you very much.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.  Who else would like to speak?  Yes?  There is a switch on it.  Help is on the way.  

Terry Dilozir, 199 West Avon Road:  I would like to make a couple of comments.  I agree with my friend that just spoke on the Spanish program and making big cuts in energy in all of our schools, which are approximately three quarters of a million square feet, we could save us 100,000 to 200,000 square feet approximately of Town offices, and spending money now, we could put in energy conserving measures to save energy for the next 50 years, however currently buildings are lasting.  We should not look at getting bonding for these kinds of issues, current inexpensive rates of bonding at 5% as compared to 18% bonding twenty years ago.  So, there is a time to spend and there is a time to save.  So, by spending now, we can save in the future.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.  Next?  Flo.  I don’t know if that is turned on.

Florence Stahl, 2 Sunset Trail:  Good evening everyone.  Let’s remember that taxes are cumulative.  I am President of the Avon Taxpayers Association.  For all of us here, let’s remember that taxes are cumulative and had we passed budgets over the last 30-40 years since I have lived here, believe me, the mill rate would be quite different.  Well, good evening everybody.  In the effort to shine a light on and understand and control spending, especially in the public education sector, will not go away, the effort will not go away and neither will the entrenched interests, so we have a long struggle ahead.  That struggle is not confined to Avon, but it’s a good place to start.  In fairness to the thousands who voted no on both referendums, we cannot support the latest proposal of 3.84%.  It represents slightly more than a half percent reduction from the 4.5% that was soundly defeated at the second referendum.  In our opinion, none of the reductions have adequately respected the huge no vote.  It would have been refreshing to hear the presenters, anyone of them, to acknowledge the magnitude of the not vote, and you know, I wrote that this afternoon not knowing if they would or not, but they didn’t, they haven’t, or at least have a presenter acknowledge that they feel our pain or they understand the concerns of so many of their constituents.  In contrast, we understand their concerns. We understand that they have a Town to run.  That is why we have never asked for a zero percent increase and never will, probably.  But, private sector wage increases have been flat and social security adjustments are in the 2.5% range.  What we ask is that these factors be taken seriously when determining an increase in taxes.  Cutting programs and services is the line of least resistance, just as raising taxes is the default solution to overspending.  What we need to hear, what we long to hear is that new, never tried before initiatives will be undertaken.  Initiatives that involve where the real money is.  That takes more courage than eliminating sports programs and brush pick up.  Then there is the issue, the rumor that is all over Town, whether the Town Council will raise taxes should the referendum fail for the third and last time.  It’s breathtaking that the Council has been asked unashamedly to do this.  Let’s consider the facts.  Aside from ethics,

Chairman Harrison:  Flo, maybe about another minutes or so, wind it down.

Florence Stahl:  Thank you, Tom.  That’s all I will take.  Aside from ethics, the Council was present when the Board of Finance agreed on the 3.84% increase.  They agreed that the figure was workable.  Energy, time and more thousands of dollars were spent, will be spent for a third referendum.  Say that referendum fails, now the Council should ignore the result, disrespect the Board of Finance, step on its own acquiescence, and raise taxes?  Isn’t the normal reaction to lower taxes?  That’s what we would expect.  It’s important that the no vote reflect our belief that this increase is still too high.  Like it or not, these times require a much closer look at spending decisions.  Thank you.  Thank you very much.

Chairman Harrison Thank you, Flo.  

Mr. Gugliotti:  Ms. Stahl, you said where the real money is.  Could you tell us where the real money is?

Chairman Harrison:  You don’t have to answer the question if you choose not to, Flo.  But, if you choose to, please feel free.

Florence Stahl:  I would be happy to answer the question and I am very glad you asked it.  Everybody knows that the greatest percent of the budget is in salaries and benefits.  You know that.

Mr. Gugliotti:  Subject to contracts that have been negotiated.

Florence Stahl:  That is correct and we have a contract coming up in a few weeks that will be negotiated for Administrators.  A contract that we all have to live with and you struggle as it is.  That is where the real money is.

Mr. Gugliotti:  But you agree with me that

Chairman Harrison:  Tom, this is not a dialogue.

Mr. Gugliotti:  Of course it is.

Chairman Harrison:  It is a hearing for the public.  Let’s do it that way.  Do you have anything more to say, Flo?

Mr. Gugliotti:  Thank you, Flo.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.

Peggy Roell:  In case anybody, if this is their first time here, the teacher’s contract, which, as everybody knows, is the biggest contract in Town, was negotiated last fall for and it starts this coming fall.  That contract went to arbitration for the first time ever and was settled in arbitration.  Arbitration was something that the Taxpayers Association pushed to do and it did cost money, but in the end, the teachers are getting a 2.2% raise this year, then a 2.2% next year, I’m sorry, a 3.1% and then a 2.4%, and that’s what the arbitrators decided on, so their contracts are set for the next three years.  

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Peggy.

Peggy Roell:  And it was based on the Town’s ability to pay, not their willingness to pay, and that is by State law.  So, there are State laws that need to be changed before the negotiating process can really change for the Board of Ed or for any of the other school districts in the State.

Chairman Harrison:  Also, it is important to know, thank you, Peggy for doing that, there has always been a fear that Towns like Avon would really suffer if we took something to arbitration, not just for schools, but for the Town side as well.  And there are, there have been decisions over the years where arbitration panels have said Avon can afford this, Avon is a wealthy Town.  But, the Board of Education did go to arbitration; I was one of the witnesses, so I got to see it.  It is a very interesting process, for those of you who didn’t see it, and it got, I believe, a very favorable result for the Town, better than the pattern that other Towns are settling at, so it may be of value, Peggy, far beyond just this immediate three year contract because there may be other bargaining units in the Town where there won’t be quite as much fear, necessarily, going to arbitration in the future, so I commend the Board of Ed for doing that.  All right, who else would like to speak now?  Yes, in front.  Okay, you will be next.  

Robin Schwartz, 88 Harris Road:  I don’t know where to start with my comments.  Um, you know, I honestly don’t know what I am going to do with this budget that is out there.  I have voted every single year that I have lived here and I always voted to support the budget and I am really distressed this year.  I mean, I don’t think that fiscal conservativeness should lead to fiscal irresponsibility in terms of loosing programs that are very valuable and if you guys don’t think, if some people don’t think that class size doesn’t matter, um, from the early grade up into the high school, I think that we really have to do a little more homework.  I’m not talking to anyone in particular, I’m just really really frustrated because there are so many cuts that I have seen in the high school.  We supported, this Town strongly supported increasing the size of the high school because, like I said before, the high school can’t be sold out.  You can’t tell people not to move into Avon and look at those numbers of people who have moved here and we can’t say, sorry, there is no room.  We take anybody.  It is public education.  That is the way it is supposed to be.  Now, so, so we have this new high school addition, and we need to staff it and when I look at some of these cuts, I just, I don’t even know what to say.  The other thing is that, you know, if any of you know, I am an avid gardener and, this is not off topic, I was at the Town Hall and at the Library this morning, and I went, you know, what is it going to take, you know, there are not going to be any impatience, there isn’t going to be mulch, I mean, I know that sounds really trivial to some of you, but the point is, you know, it is going to go across the board, and like Tom Gugliotti said, it’s not just the sign leading to Connecticut, it’s the roads in Rhode Island and some other Towns across the State, you can drive anywhere, and you can see the effects on lower budgets and not taking care of…(inaudible)…that, you know, we are going to have to take care of later.  And, if anyone thinks that they are going to cost less money later, I don’t know where that math comes from.  So, I am really really frustrated, um, I appreciate all of the hard work that all of you have done and all of the letters that have been sent to you guys and just remember that fiscal conservativeness should not lead to fiscal irresponsibility and not taking care of the needs of the Town.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.  Yes, the gentleman on this side.

Robert Mulready, 109 Pine Hill Road:  I thought you said Robert.  I was going to say, how do you know my name?  I have lived in this greater Avon area since, for my entire life, excuse me, for the majority of my life for I was out of Town, I was the Town Manager and Finance Director.  Many years ago, when I was 32 years old, I decided to take a job in Davenport, Iowa, leaving Farmington as their Finance Director.  A friend of mine said, you know Bob, I don’t get it.  This is the area where everybody wants to come back to.  I didn’t fully grasp it then, but I surely do now.  I spent 30 years in local government and in the past several years, I have owned two businesses.  I was an Assessor, a Finance Director and a Town and State Manager and in Farmington, Assessor and Finance Director, Davenport, Iowa, Finance Director, City Manager, Enfield, Connecticut, mostly as a City Manager.  My areas of strength are Town development, finance and real estate, but this is really not about me, it’s just that I am telling you, I promised myself that when I left local government on March 31, 2000, I was done with public hearings.  I went to 1000 of them and I have had quite enough.  Now it is 1001.  I was also very privileged to serve on some national environmental boards and nominated by George Mitchell, who was the Senate Majority Leader.  I was not partisan at all (inaudible).  I tell you that because what I want to say is that I have a little background here.  The budget has failed twice and I regret that I was not here to vote on the first one, but I did vote yes in the second one.  I do not have children in the school system.  I do have two beautiful granddaughters, one who entered last year and one who will be entering this year, but they did not live here six years ago when I chose to come back to Avon.  My wife and I had to choose between Avon and Farmington, but I won.  I think that was one of the two arguments that I ever won.  Getting back to the budget, Avon is very safe.  It’s clean and well managed, but I live at the bottom of Pine Hill Drive and there’s a hill there and all kinds of trees and…(inaudible)…like they have always been there.  They do a great job of doing all of the various things.  When I go for a walk, to walk my dog, or I take a walk with the kids, I feel safe.  I don’t feel like poor Nick Carbone on a public street, on a business day, having been hit by three hooligans, you don’t hear about that happening in this Town.  I take great pride in the children of this Town and the excellent schools.  I, for years, have read how Avon would do and how Farmington would do, even when I didn’t live in State and this is such a joy to me, with no children in the school system and just this past year relatives like my grandchildren, to see how well they did.  We are in the top 4-5 every year that is awesome.  How did we get into this situation where teachers aren’t getting paid again?  I was involved in that in 1987 and we were losing teachers left and right.  No longer could women not find jobs elsewhere, we had to start paying them.  And I was in the position as Town Manager of Enfield I served on some very powerful Boards and otherwise and I was involved in those negotiations and I fully supported it then and I support it now.  The children need to be educated.  I went to a school function recently to see the kids dance.  It was hysterical and outrageous and it was wonderful.  I almost cried and that was when my kids weren’t, my daughter’s kids weren’t there.  It was wonderful.  It cost me $13 to get in.  Why?  Because I should pay to get in, excuse me, my daughter paid my way in.  Some closing thoughts, I think it is wrong to approach the Town Council to ask them to do something that doesn’t pass the referendum.  That is not my choice.  But, let’s be positive and keep Avon first and, yes, there is a price for Democracy, it’s called constant vigilance.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, sir.  Who else would like to speak now?  Yes, you.

Myrna Gresh, 36 Forge Drive:  I have lived in Avon for 45 years and I would just like to say three different points.  First of all, on the revaluation, as it has been mentioned, I don’t think anyone mentioned that two weeks ago, our Tax Assessor held a workshop and he informed us that we could expect our assessments to go up 23%, so this is will too have a bearing on whatever we finally vote.  Secondly, I do think that the budget, at this last referendum, would pass if it was closer to 3%.  And thirdly, I do hope that people who want the budget to pass will vote yes and those who don’t want it to pass will vote no so that we can have a fair referendum.  This morning in the Hartford Courant, there was a letter from a man named Henry Morgan.  I don’t know if he is here this evening, but he suggested that it might help to clarify things about possible voting that could contaminate the results of the referendum.  That there be something put on the ballot if you want the budget to be lowered or if you want the budget increase to be raised.  I hope that is possible, but I think that might be a good idea to prevent any false results on this last referendum and I think that if the officials raise the amount, our taxes after the referendum and it is in their hands, then I think this will send a message to those people who might want to corrupt our referendum and then I think that would be very very bad for our Town, the Town of Avon.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you very much.  In response to the point about getting an advisory statement on the ballot, that can be done, but not in time for this next one.  It is up to the Council initially to decide whether they want to do that.  We couldn’t get it done that quickly for this referendum, but it is something that you could bring up in future years, the advisory question that you may like.  All right, who else would like to speak.  Okay, the lady all the way in the back.  Sonja is it?

Sonja Larkin-Thorne, 5 Avondale:  I have a question and a statement.  A question for Peggy Roell regarding the Board of Ed budget.  As I have gone through it and looked at it and read all of the pages, the question in terms of your cuts and in prior spending patterns, you talk about cutting teachers, which is a very emotional issue for anybody sitting in this room, especially for parents, but what I don’t see is why not consolidation of those non-essential positions.  Why cut teachers when you can consolidate?  Why do our schools have their own snow plows, at least that is the rumor in Town.  Why not consolidate purchase orders.  I think that you can adjust this budget and take the adjustments necessary without impacting the educators, the classroom teachers, but impact it in other ways where they don’t impact students and the quality of education.  I have gone through and looked at the Town’s that you compared Avon to and looked at CREC, in fact it’s all in this book if anybody wants to see it.  Classroom size in Avon is no different, especially at the high school level with any of our competitor Towns that are listed, at least that is what the CREC pages show in terms of being 18.2, 18.1, in fact, one of the Towns which is very competitive actually has 2 more children per classroom in their high school than we do.  There are also rumors around the Town regarding prior spending and dollars, that once the budget is passed, they can then do what they wish with it.  So, as I listen to people, and I have done my own research, I see or hear that once the budget is passed that $50,000 that was taken a couple of years ago and used for a study which two other States, which weren’t relative in size or education to the Town of Avon, and I understand that was New York and New Jersey.  That’s the rumor.  So, I would like some answers to those questions.  I would like some consideration where you would cut, and it shouldn’t be a classroom teacher, but where you could consolidate spending with the building, with the grounds, with the snow plowing and not impact the educators or the classroom size in this Town.  I would like to hear an answer.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.  Peggy, would you like to respond?

Peggy Roell:  The consolidation of services is an ongoing discussion between the Town and the Board of Ed.  There is a committee of the Administrators and the Board, of the Town people that look at different things so we can combine quarterly or so.  We have had that for five or six years.  Is that right?  Okay.  As far as snow plowing, the Town is snow plowing at the same time as schools are snow plowing.  So, could we cut out some snow plows and not have school a few more days or delays starts more?  I guess that is an option, but not one that we think is educationally sound option.  The trucks, the snow plows go out and the trucks that are used throughout the year are not specific snow plow trucks.  Class sizes, um, I’ve got the printout of what the projected class sizes are for next year.  And when you go through the high school list, there are minimal classes that are under 20 kids.  There are a lot that are at 25 and this is with us only being 93% scheduled.  There is another, about, 70 kids or 80 kids that have to get scheduled, so that even the classes that are at 20 or a little bit under are likely to be in the 22 to 24 to 25 range.  I also looked through this list specifically for the AP classes because people have lots of discussions about AP classes.  Most of the AP classes are 24, 25, 26 and 27 children.  Ones that have less are being combined with honors classes or the teachers are doing it as independent study during their free periods, they are meeting with students to provide the extra education that the different students want.  The $50,000 spent you referred to was really a $10,000 study that was part of a contortion of a part of Tri-State that is a lot of high-powered school districts that learn at Avon.  The whole purpose is to learn from that, that best practices, so we can be more efficient so we can better serve our students.  And they go through our Language Arts program, they had lots of great ideas.  Their report is on our website.  You will also see there are lots of comments.  They can’t believe we are doing what we are doing with the amounts of money that we have.  Granted, a lot of these are the Fairfield County school districts, New Jersey school districts that have had a lot more money and spend a lot more money.  We are not saying that we should be like, we should not be spending money that way, but their comments from professional educators will find very interesting about how efficient and how much we really do for the dollars that we get.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Peggy.  All right.  Would anybody else like to speak?  Um, yes.

Melissa Gressier:  I am embarrassed to say, but this is my first public hearing since moving here about 5 years ago.  I am a mother and stepmother to 4 children.  Next year I will have children at Avon High, Avon Middle, Thompson and one that will begin Roaring Brook the year after.  I am actually fortunate to have been laid off recently as a real estate attorney so I can actually pay attention to what is going on in Town and I am appalled at what I see with the Board of Education cuts.  I need to make a comment.  School sports, any athletic sports program is not a non-essential.  It is not an elective when you have three boys in your house, especially when you have any child who suffering from any kind of weight management issue, any kind of hyperactivity issue.  Many of the things I see being cut in this Board of Education budget are not non-essentials.  I see that social workers are going to be cut in the current plan.  Anybody who thinks that a social worker is non-essential in an elementary school has not seen a child go through a divorce, hasn’t seen a child who’s parents struggle with mental health or alcohol issues.  I have personally seen the effect that social work has with young children in Roaring Brook and Pine Grove.  These are not non-essential.  I am very very glad that I suddenly have the time to take a look around and find out how important Town politics are.  I came from a big city and I didn’t understand and now I do.  And I beg of you, when you hear a no vote in the next referendum, which will be loudly coming from me, is not going to mean that I don’t want you to make a smaller budget, it will mean that I want you to take the power into your hands to do what is right for the children of Avon.  This budget is not it.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.  First of all, it is always most interesting and we hope to see you at public hearings again.  We look forward to that.  

Unknown:  Can we do without the applause, please.  It is disruptive and taking too much time away from the speaker.

Chairman Harrison:  Well, I think it’s, although, I don’t really think that it is disruptive.  I think people have the option and the opportunity to, but I (inaudible), then we will do something about it, but I think that is has been for both sides of the issues.  Alright, who else now would like to speak?  Um, yes.

Sam Levine, 98 Cotswold Way:  First of all, I want to commend the Board of Finance, the Town Council and the Board of Education.  I think your, you have had a hard problem to deal with.  You had parents who didn’t come up and didn’t show and didn’t vote and it’s been a long long standing issue and you realize that 1,700 nay sayers don’t necessarily have what’s in the best interest of the Town at heart.  I really commend you for really talking with each other, for working together and trying to come up with the best possible solution for this community under really awful circumstances.  I think that, when you have to make cuts and you have to make decisions, you really need to look within yourself and determine in your heart, what is truly in the best interest of the community.  And sometimes it’s not necessarily to go down.  Sometimes if you put it in your own hands and you make a decision that ultimately, it will benefit the community as a whole.  The one thing that I did notice when I was looking through the cuts from tonight, is that the cuts from the Town side, and they have had to make some significant cuts, and I think they, you should never put off something that needs correcting now because as you know, as with the high school addition that they didn’t, that got knocked down and they ended up putting it off and it ended up costing a heck of a lot more in the future than it does in the present, so putting off those improvement are detrimental to the Town.  But I noticed that they cut out a program and they also cut out a lawn mower.  And you look at the list that the Board of Ed is forced to cut and you see how lean and mean and how destructive these cuts are to our community.  So, I beseech you and I ask you to look to the Town of Granby that recently when they made their budget cuts, they told the school system that there were going to be no more cuts from the school.  They said, it’s too much, it’s too deep, it’s too hard.  And the Town has taken it.  And I think that if you put the same cuts in the community, it would be a basic shell for this Town, but next year, I am paying, out of pocket, me personally, out of pocket, I’m paying $800 for sports fees, out of pocket.  Out of my own pocket, not to mention all of the things I have to pay for in this community beyond that.  I have to pay for Spanish workbooks, I have to pay for field trips, I have to pay for donations to put books in schools and it is costing me close to $1,000 in taxes next year that not everybody in this community is obligated to pay.  So it’s time, I think, and the school still have to come up with $50,000 in addition.  I don’t know where they are going to pull it out of.  I do not. So, I think the right and the smart and the responsible thing is for the Town Council to take this budget and say, look, we need to cut back in our budget and we need to cut back on the Library, we need to cut back on the tree, on the stick pick-up again, we need to start charging more for the Parks and Rec, we need to start charging more for the dump.  I know you raised the fees already, but you are going to have to raise them again because it is costing me $800 to keep my kids in school and 20 buck additional, what did you raise the dump for, how much did you raise the dump? $25 bucks for the dump?

Phil Schenck:  Forty-five.

Sue Levine:  45 bucks for the dump one time a year, you know, it jumps 50%, but we are going from zero to 150 per sport per kids.  That is a 150%.  So I ask you to look into that Town and reach into the Town as a community and try and get a little money back into the schools because the no vote didn’t say be irresponsible, they said be responsible.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Sam.  Who else now would like to comment?  

Mr. Gugliotti:  I would.  I would.  I will step down and you could call me next.

Cliff Thier, 61 Lord Davis Lane:  I have a question, first, for perhaps someone on the Board of Education to answer.  As I understand it, the Administrative budget line is $1,727,000.  Is that correct?  And there are currently 3,607 students in the Avon school system?

Peggy Roell:  Yes.

Mr. Thier:  So that comes to $478 per student per administrator.  I checked with Simsbury’s numbers.  They have 12,973 students, their administrator budget is $1,786,895.  Their spending per student is $359.  If Avon were to spend, per student for administration, the same as Simsbury’s spending, and I don’t think anyone can say that Simsbury is full of, well, they are comparable, Avon would be able to save $430,000, if we were run as low as Simsbury’s schools are.  So, I am a little perplexed why we are spending so much more for administration than Simsbury?  Perhaps somebody could answer that.

Peggy Roell:  I think part of it is what they consider administrative versus what we consider administrative.    If a person is working half time as a teacher or half time as an administrator, their salary goes into the teacher account, not the administrator account.  I believe if you look at their, do you have those numbers?  We produced five administrators over the last five years.  Are we comparing apples to apples?  I’m not sure, but I do know that West Hartford and I believe it is Simsbury, that have a lot part time administrators, where our administrators are full time.  So, we could take some of our administrators, we could get twice as many people to be administrators half the time and teachers half the time, then our administrators salaries would go down, but our teacher salaries would go up.  That does not seem to be an efficient way to run the schools.

Mr. Thier:  But you are not 100% sure that you are not spending more, significantly more per student for administration.

Peggy Roell:  Not without knowing your numbers and not without talking to somebody at Simsbury.  I would be happy to have Dr. Kisiel talk to people in Simsbury to see who they are including in their budget.  I have seen lists of it, a couple of years ago, we got lists of the administrators in Farmington, Simsbury and Avon, and we had the least of any of the administrators, of the list of administrators, we had significantly less than the other Towns.

Mr. Thier:  But if my numbers are right, would you say that a half of a million dollars, without cutting in deep.

Peggy Roell:  Well, if your numbers are right, yes, as an accountant, I would say the math works, but that is not, I don’t think the premise that you are working on is accurate, so I am not going to say that the end result is accurate.

Mr. Thier:  Well, has anyone actually done

Chairman Harrison:  Mr. Thier?

Peggy Roell:  We were working on it a couple of years ago and we are working on it now in anticipation of the administrator’s contract, we start negotiating before the end of the month.

Chairman Harrison:  Mr. Thier, I would suggest that if you want to follow up.

Mr. Thier:  I have no further questions.

Chairman Harrison:  Okay, because I am sure that Dr. Kisiel or Peggy Roell would be happy to chat with you by e-mail, phone, whatever.  Thank you.  Okay, before we get to Tom, I just want to give the public a chance, Tom, this is a public hearing.

Mr. Gugliotti:  I’m, I’m part of the public.

Chairman Harrison:  Well, you wear an extra hat.

Mr. Gugliotti:  Tom, I’m sorry.  I’m down here; I’m part of the public.  May I speak?  I will take the podium. (inaudible)

Chairman Harrison:  Well, you are, Tom, but (inaudible)

Mr. Gugliotti:  My name is Tom Gugliotti and I live at (inaudible) as my citizenship as a citizen and taxpayer.

Chairman Harrison:  (inaudible)

Mr. Gugliotti:  I am shocked (inaudible)

Chairman Harrison:  Tom, do you want to speak or not?  Speak.

Mr. Gugliotti:  Thank you.  I apologize ladies and gentlemen.  I didn’t think I had to beg for my right to speak at a Town meeting.

Chairman Harrison:  You don’t.

Mr. Gugliotti:  Apparently I do.  Just a couple of points I would like to make.  First of all, the reference to the reval, the 22% figure that has been referenced, it is important to put that in context.  At 22% increase in property does not translate into a 22% increase in taxes.  If everyone’s property value is increased 22%, your tax increase is zero.  The rub comes in with respect to the fact that now everybody is saying we are up 22%.  There is often times a shift from businesses over to residential.  We don’t know what that is yet, but to say that there is going to be a 22% property increase, that’s not going to happen.  You have to see how it is going to be allocated, there is much more data that needs to be brought into play.  So, you need to be aware of that.  The second thing is, I would like to address the folks that said, well, I really think that the budget is too low and I am going to vote no.  I suggest to you that is foolish logic.  Honestly.  It’s not at all logical to think that in light of the no votes that we have had, and Ms. Stahl is correct, in that we have to respect that.  It is not logical at all to think that the Council, who hasn’t really spoken to the issue directly, it is not logical to think that they are going to increase it.  And to the gentleman that spoke very early on, some folks, you hope that the Board of Finance increases it tonight.  We could do that.  We are going to adjourn and have a meeting, but it is also not logical to think that the Board of Finance is going to increase it.  So, if you are unhappy with the cuts that have been made, you ought not to be banking on the Council increasing it.  I can’t speak for the Council, but it is illogical to think that.  And for those of you who think that the budget is still too high, I submit that it is illogical to think that the Town Council, at least significantly, cut it.  Maybe they are going to cut some, but I hope they don’t.  I hope they don’t touch it at all.  We don’t know what they are going to do, but it is not logical to think that the Council is going to increase it.  And I say that it is also not logical, at least in my mind, that the Council, I think it would be irresponsible for the Council to apply any significant cuts, but we will have to see.  The gentleman who said earlier who said that we spent a lot of time and effort and money to get 100% decrease in our taxes made a very good point.  I hope everyone takes that to heart.  What we need is, I think, for folks to change a little bit, the direction we have had back to what we used to think of as the cohesive community of Avon where we put aside our individual preferences and our individual desires, I would like to have lower taxes, but I would also want the Town to remain the Town of Avon.  I don’t want it to become some other place.  I like it here.  I would like it to stay the way it is.

Chairman Harrison:  Would anybody else like to speak now?  Yes, Val?

Val Ferro:  First of all, I would like to applaud Mr. Gugliotti.  I believe he is the first elected official that has had the guts to stand up and attempted to debunk myth and frankly, Tom, I am disappointed that you didn’t let him speak.

Chairman Harrison:  He did speak, Val.

Val Ferro:  He did, but (inaudible)

Chairman Harrison:  We are here (inaudible).  Valarie, we are here to listen to you.

Val Ferro:  To speak of myths, I went back in my files and I have kept them religiously since about 1995.  Back when the first high school expansion project was soundly defeated by a group we all know was very organized, and they issued a number of things.  No one was willing to stand up and say hey, your information is wrong.  I went back last night and according to that information that was passed out by the no votes, my taxes in 2005 was supposed to be about $2,400 and they are about $6,200.  But again, no one from the Town will ever stand up and you know, I don’t know why we have this kid glove hands off, but when information is being distributed, it’s wrong.  It’s up to the elected officials to stand up and correct it.  Tom is the first person who has done that.  So, I would like to see more of that from our elected officials.  You are supposed to be leaders when you are elected.  So, one of the reasons why we are standing here with the budgets that are here, is because in 1995, because of the resounding defeat of that first referendum, we cut the high school expansion.  We waited several years and several million dollars while construction prices skyrocketed.  And so, last year, when we brought the high school online, we were paying for fiscal irresponsibility because no one stood up to the no vote.  So, we have to think about that and move forward and we have to start thinking about our future, not for what we are living for today.  So clearly, this is not Camelot.  So, there are some things that I have some questions about and maybe, with answers, it might clarify where folks, particularly folks that are on the line, might make a decision when it comes to, you know, put that application in for what we have.  First of all, I need to know what is the threshold income for tax relief because no one is really talking about it.  But, what is the threshold for income tax relief.  Does anybody know?  

Chairman Harrison:  Are you talking about the senior?

Phil Schenck:  For a couple, Val, it’s $43,500.

Val Ferro:  That’s local.  And then for State, you get additional?

Phil Schenck:  No.  The Town is above the State by about $10,000.

Val Ferro:  Okay.  And according to the 2000 census, how many individuals living in the Town of Avon are eligible for that?

Phil Schenck:  We haven’t checked it, in fact, the last census data is 9 years old.  We had about 100 households that are participating in the program and we are, excuse me, about 158 households and are dealing with about $100,000 in abated taxes that are transferred to the rest of the community.

Val Ferro:  So, we have 158 using the program?

Phil Schenck:  Approximately.

Val Ferro:  And you don’t know how many are eligible?

Phil Schenck:  I could go back and find out and call you tomorrow if you want.  I don’t have the exact figures from today on the tip of my tongue.

Val Ferro:  You know, I think it would be helpful for us to, you know, critically think how many people are falling into the cracks.

Phil Schenck:  Well, as you probably know, there has been a major effort over the last 3 to 4 months, Barbara Zuras has lead that effort to certain extent through the Committee on Aging to increase both the income levels to index or the amount of  the abatement to the level of the increase in taxes.  So for instance, the amount of the abatement, and it varies by income level, it varies by marital status, and so forth, there is a whole table that outlines in detail and anyone is invited to call the Town Assessor’s office at 409-4337 and they will be happy to help them through the process.  The process has to take place during the spring months because the tax rates are usually set.  There is a Statutory window of opportunity to apply for the particular program.  Individuals should be able to, or should be prepared to bring in their income tax forms for income verification.  One member of each household has to be 65 year old or older.  The spouse, either gender, can be less than 65 years old, but that’s the basic Statutory qualifications for the tax circuit, or program.

Val Ferro:  Alright.  Okay, thank you.  So, in comparison, we have 1,800, roughly 1,800 people vote no and have about 158 individuals taking the tax relief program.  Is that correct?

Chairman Harrison:  I mean, by your numbers, I would say yes, but it’s 158 households, not people.

Val Ferro:  So, even if there is two, it would be about 300.  Now, what is the amount of surplus we need or what surplus are we carrying right now in the Town of Avon to maintain our bond rating?

Chairman Harrison:  Phil, do you have that information?

Phil Schenck:  Our general fund, undesignated fund balance is about 5.59%.  It’s about $3.8 million.  Bonding agencies usually like to have between 5%-10%.  There is usually for AAA rated communities or AAA rates by both Standard & Poor’s and Moody’s, they like 10% or more.  The Town’s policy is to have a 10% fund balance, so we keep a 10% fund balance in all of our non-general revenue funds, which are generally special revenue funds, but for the general fund, which is the fund that the rating agencies primarily look at, we are looking at a 5.59% fund balance.

Val Ferro:  Okay, so we have $3.8 million in the surplus right now, and

Chairman Harrison:  Val, Val, if you have more questions

Val Ferro:  That is just about it.  Just to round off my last note, um, out of the $3.8 million that we are carrying, the interest income is reinvested?  How is that invested and what is the yield?  

Chairman Harrison:  It is a revenue stream, if you could elaborate on that.

Phil Schenck:  Our interest on investments vary from the Federal Funds Rate essentially and we have taken the $300,000 reduction in the budget that we are talking about this evening in interest income for next year due to the reduction of the Federal Funds Rate that went into effect earlier this year in response to the sub-prime mortgage credit crunch crisis.

Val Ferro:  So, what is the interest (inaudible) on that?

Phil Schenck:  Well, you can look at the handout for tonight’s meeting.  You will see the interest on investments.  Interest on investments, and that’s for all funds, is about $875,000.  The money is rolled over because we have a cash management program and we have to go ahead and fund the money that we take in to our bills that we pay out.  So the amount of the interest that we earn is not a fixed rate over the year.  It varies month to month and in some cases, less than month to month depending upon the amount of money we take in with the taxes and the amount of money that we have to pay out.

Val Ferro:  Okay, so I guess my last question or mainly it is the comment to the Board of Finance.  If we could have saved, again, you heard me last time, for our rainy day fund and at least taken a portion of that during the high economic times, and put together some type of contingency fund, I don’t think we needed to cut as deeply as we are cutting.  And I think that we are not fessing up to the fact that, frankly, since 1995, we have been cutting and cutting and cutting and people are just, little bit, many times it’s just a band-aid approach.  And I think that we can talk about it now or we can talk about it again.  We are going to continue to pay for that type of approach.  So, as you are trying to figure out what the voters may want to do, I still have not made up my mind, frankly.  And I think we need to start thinking about a greater way, cash management or something, to try to defray some of these cuts so that we are clear that this is in the past, because I am truly not sure it is going to be. Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Okay.  Thank you, Val.  Okay, Linda?

Linda Merlin, 48 Highgate Drive:  I debated whether or not to talk.  I will try to keep it short.  Lowest and best.  That’s what Tom Gugliotti said tonight, and the Board has tried to get the lowest budget that could pass that would still be a good budget.  The community does not support it and that has been so sad.  The lowest and best.  At some point, he said that if we cut too much we harm the Town.  Well, tonight, some who have spoke here are struggling as to how to vote on this budget.  I think the response to the Town, beyond something that I can tolerate.  I do not know what I am going to do either.  After this meeting, and what I hear in the next meeting about the impact on the schools, that will all play a role.  I guess that you feel that a no vote isn’t going to do any good in terms of corrupting the process.  The Town Charter allows the Town Council to do whatever it wants when it gets to them.  I guess the political process in this Town, in terms of who shows up at the polls and I know how hard it would be, but I also know that the first budget could have used more, but I understood that (inaudible) so how do you support a budget that is palpably inadequate, palpably we are all going to feel it on every level of this Town, whether you have kids in school or not, but particularly, if you have kids in school.  I am so sorry that so many people don’t vote in this Town.  I am so sorry that parents didn’t turn out the way they should have.  The schools need our support, and the Town needs our support and I don’t know where I stand on this budget at this point, but I hope that tonight, we would all take a closer look and I think we need to respect all of the members of the community.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Sam.  Sorry, Linda, sorry.  Um, other speakers?  Yes, right here.

Jane Peregrin, 67 Cotswold Way:  I have lived in the Town for over 30 years and as I have said at these meetings, I moved here for two reasons, a quality of life and the educational system.  We do have that quality of life and we are trying to maintain it.  I don’t always believe that we are as safe as we would like to think we are given what has happened in recent events in Cheshire and break-ins and other things, but I know that we have a Police force that does their job.  We have people that look out for each other and it makes us a special community.  These meetings disturb me greatly because I find that community divided.  As an educator, I am the Director of Guidance and I have been at the high school for 12 years now.  I am committed to education, my own children as well as all of the children of Avon.  The cuts that you are talking about are deep and the ones that have been made in the past several years have come home to roost.  Parents who are sitting in this room have received a letter from the high school saying that we are dropping courses to cover core academic classes.  We cannot offer AP Computer Science because we need that math teacher to teach some basic math classes.  We cannot offer a Marine Science and the new class that the kids were interested in Forensic Science because we need the science teachers at the high school to cover bio, chem and physics.  Basic, core, academic classes.  Accounting II will not be offered, a writers workshop will not be offered, so I ask some of you if you are not familiar with what we have to offer in terms of electives, take a look at the course of studies book that is online.  Compare us to schools that are in our area.  You will see that we are lean.  We have students that can take 5 or 6 credits a day and they are looking for other electives.  We cut several years ago the foods and nutrition program.  We have cut technology education.  Not all students are geared up for four year colleges, and I am about all students.  I want to do what is right for all kids that come through our doors.  Some kids need hands on kind of programs.  You will find that Simsbury, Farmington, Canton and I think we would be remiss because we cannot offer some of those programs to the students in Avon.  So, yes, we do get some kids that are discouraged and that are looking for alternatives and I also work with the alternative school in the evenings and I see some students who would not have a high school diploma otherwise if we didn’t offer that program.  That program is pretty much self sufficient.  We take in students from Canton and Farmington as well and they pay tuition to be there which covers our expenses.  So, I think we are really struggling to maintain the good strong core academic classes for our students right now.  I am seeing class sizes 26, 27, 28 and though that may not upset some people who have been in a class of 50, I went to Catholic schools and I had a nun and 60 students in my class, but that was a different era back then than it is now.  So, to even get those numbers of students in a classroom is a challenge, yet, we are looking at those kinds of numbers for the fall.  So, I too am clearly disappointed in this budget.  I would like to think that when I go out to go estimates on projects in my home that I look for three and some are right between that I settle, there will be a high a low and something in the middle.  I am beginning to think that the budget that we turned down on the last referendum was the one in the middle.  I cannot support this budget that we are going forward with and I don’t like the fact that if I don’t it may go even lower.  All I can say is that 70% of the people didn’t vote in the last two referendums and we need to encourage people to vote and to be aware of these kinds of issues that are taking place in our community.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.  I agree with your last point.  Linda and I have had conversations on this, why we don’t get a higher turnout.  I don’t know the answer, but it is a challenge that we don’t get a bigger turnout than we have had.  I wish that we could get a higher one.  Thank you also for raising that and the other issues.  Anybody else would like to speak?  Yes, right here.

Joanne Beers, 48 Brookridge Drive:  I had some things that I was going to say, but Tom, in the spirit of what you said earlier, I won’t.  I would like to commend the Board of Finance for not cutting deeper that you already have.  I think you have tried to be responsible, but I would like to say one thing.  The crown jewel in this Town if our education system, our public school system, not this building, guys.  It’s not the pool next door, it’s not the Town Hall, it’s the public school system.  We are cutting 6th grade Spanish in a country where the second language is Spanish.  We are cutting PE in the high school so that, in a country where obesity is a growing problem.  Our kids can only take two semesters at the high school of PE.  We are cutting programs that Jane talked about.  Those are important programs, too.  Let us not cut anything more.  I don’t know whether or not I am going to vote yes or no, but I do know that this budget is not it.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.  Anyone else that hasn’t spoken for the first time yet?  Um, yes, all the way in the back.

Lisa Schadler-Alessio, 32 Kingsridge:  I am really nervous.  

Chairman Harrison:  You are among friends, so be yourself.

Lisa Schadler-Alessio:  I was very saddened recently to attend the last Town of Avon budget meeting and hearing individuals point out the fact that the American flag was not flying at our high school on Memorial Day.  I was wondering if that same individual attended the Memorial Day parade and the ceremony that followed.  If they did, they would have noticed that the majority of the people marching in the parade were the children of Avon.  The music was being played by the high school marching band.  I know for a fact that these children, citizens of our community, marching in that parade with their families have been involved for years in efforts to clean up the Town, beautify it by planting things, visiting people at the health centers and many fundraising efforts for charity.  I walked into Pine Grove School the other day and read a plaque thanking the school for their efforts for raising money for the victims of Oklahoma City, helping the rain forests, and the following one that really caught my attention, a local Veterans organization thanking the children of Pine Grove School for their support.  We are forced to make money for our schools by fundraisers and as someone mentioned before, out of our own pocket.  This coming school year, the PTO and another organization have the daunting task of raising over $200,000 to build a handicapped accessible playground for Pine Grove School.  The special needs children that attend there can’t play on the playground because it isn’t handicapped accessible.  It isn’t just about education but sending children out into the world as well rounded individuals and being able to say that they come from Avon, Connecticut.  The sad reality is that we are all paying, so when we make cuts to things such as sports, music, and other interests, you just might be sending a child home to TV, video games, IMing and surfing the internet.  Why don’t they pick up a book and read, you say?  You may be eliminating books, Librarians and reading specialists.  Farmington High School has sent, just sent their string orchestra to Carnegie Hall for the second year in a row.  The Farmington strings program starts in second grade, ours starts in fourth and we are considering eliminating it.  There are two pianos in the PTO room at the Pine Grove school collecting dust that were once used when each one of our schools had enrichment programs.  We now have one enrichment teacher for the entire school district.  I talked to a teacher at Avon Middle School who said he was given $75 for supplies at the beginning of the year.  He used $35 and saved the rest for later, $75, but the $40 that was left was taken back because the school needed it for other things.  He told me that he does spend a couple hundred dollars out of his own pocket to pay for supplies.  Is this what we have come to?  I feel we have an obligation to these children, citizens of Avon, marchers, musicians, athletes, intellects, and young philanthropists that have come out of our school system as well rounded people to continue giving them a great education and have them say that I come from Avon, Connecticut.  Please don’t sacrifice their education.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.  You did very well, so don’t hesitate to speak out the next time we have these.  Okay, anybody else who hasn’t spoken for the first time yet?  Yes.

Barbara Yanaros, 14 Millstone Drive:  I really wasn’t going to speak, but I feel that I really need to.  We talk about the sports and music programs in the schools.  I think that it is real important to note that when you cut that out languages and the music programs, especially at an early age, it’s not just about eliminating something that is non-essential to us.  It has been proven time and time again that these programs help encourage developing minds, especially in the areas of math.  When you eliminate programs, like school programs, it also has a value to the community as a whole, especially when you are dealing with kids at the high school age level because, when you have kids at this age level, then they have nothing else to do in the community.  They may have a tendency just to hang out after school.  There are a lot of opportunities for them to get into trouble and that trouble could lead to areas that make development to things that we don’t want them to get in to.  The high school is lacking in other areas too.  As much as we would love to support the teachers, there are a lot of things that people just aren’t aware of.  We have a brand new cafeteria here that there are not enough chairs for the kids to even sit in to have lunch.  They have a brand new science lab up there, but the lab is not equipped right now, so that they can even go in to conduct their experiments that they really need to do.  I mean, I could go on and on.  I mean, these are just things that I have observed.  My child was involved in jazz band program and he has gone up there every Monday night to practice and recently, they had their performance and what happened?  He got up there the night of the performance and the instrument he has to use is missing three of its keys.  So, the night of the performance, he can’t even perform the number he needed to perform.  I mean, I could go on and on, but, I mean, these are things that we really have to consider when we look at this budget.  I think that it is grossly inadequate and I ask that you really take a look at this because it, to me, I really take it to heart.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you very much.  

Richard Kisiel:  Just to clarify the last speaker, the chairs for the cafeteria are included in the project and the science furniture is also included in the building project.  The furniture will be in the building during the summertime and you will all have a chance to see it on September the 14th when we have the dedication.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Dr. Kisiel.  Any other first time speakers?  Alright, yes.

Barbara Shuckra, 78 Deepwood Drive:  I have been here for over 34 ½ years and all four of my children have gone through the Avon school system.  We moved from Michigan and I had four children under 5, 5 years of age.  And I wanted a community where I knew the SAT scores were excellent.  I even refused to go with my husband to Washington DC because I could not believe that I should sacrifice my children.  I truly believed that they were my special gems and I agree with everything that everybody is saying, but someone said, gee, your son had a, what did she say, a saxophone, I believe he was in the jazz band.  I paid for an alto sax that my son used in the jazz band.  I paid for a flute, a piccolo, the big thing that is, um, a bass horn.  We paid for soccer.  We paid for camp.  We raised money.  We didn’t expect the school system, we took the responsibility.  I wanted my child in soccer, I paid for soccer.  If he was, he was in football, God forbid, he was the safety and the first time he caught the ball and the other team piled on him, I go, get off my baby!  And I was banned from the football team forever.  However, I took responsibility.  If my children were sick, I took them to the doctor.  If they needed counseling, I paid for that counseling.  I didn’t expect the rest of Avon to pay for it.  I believe in a quality education.  I believe in quality buildings and the garden club pays for most of the flowers around the Town, at the Town Hall and around the Library.  So, we all have been paying over the years, our time, our money, even our efforts to build playgrounds.  I was with my daughter on Saturday.  She is expecting her first baby.  My kids should be dead by now if we did the standards that are in place today, but we were there supporting the school system.  For years I sat on the floor in the Library at Roaring Brook, I was at the high school and the middle school.  We all gave our time and money.  I didn’t expect the rest of Avon to do it.  If I wanted my child there, I provided it.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.  That is similar to what my kids did.  The smaller the kid the bigger the instrument they would want to play.  That is usually the way it works out.  

Barbara Yanaros:  Could I just add something?

Chairman Harrison:  Sure.  Quickly.

Barbara Yanaros:  I did pay for my son’s saxophone.  He was asked to play and (inaudible).

Chairman Harrison:  Okay, thank you.  Thank you.  Alright, Flo, I think everybody else has.  Does anybody else want to speak?  Okay, yes.  Then, Flo, we will do you next.  Okay?

Nancy Kostal, 31 Rosewood Road:  I just would ask the Board of Education to clarify the paying for the sports, because it is my understanding that we have never had to pay for play program before until this year that it is being proposed.  In the past, we might be doing sports through the Recreation Department as my children do and I pay.  So this is different to say that, you know, parents aren’t taking responsibility because we are asking to Town to provide sports or instruments for our children.  I don’t think that’s fair and I really am bothered by that implication.  I think that, unless it is absolutely clarified, an instrument that was provided by the Town, that’s the rare occasion, otherwise, it is the parents who are paying.  And I would ask Peggy or Dr. Kisiel to clarify, you know, have we ever paid at the high school level for sports before?

Peggy Roell:  The answer is no, we have never paid for sports.  The answer is from fifth grade on or from fourth grade for strings, the parents pay for the instruments, except for someone with very large instruments that the kids, it’s not practical for the kids to carry back and forth on the buses, hopefully they are taking the buses.  The school does have, the schools do have some of the largest instruments, but it is the largest instruments.  Rumor is that our family owns two instruments.  I haven’t seen them at home for a while, but we have paid for them and they are at school.  As far as the sports, the sports at the high school is about $500,000.  The pay to play would be $150, which hasn’t been decided yet, I guess I just want to make it clear that, two months ago when the Board talked about it, it was not, people did not want to do it.  The Board does not want to, this is not the direction we felt we wanted to go with the schools, but with where we are now, the option is cutting back on something versus having people subsidize a portion of it, the Town still paying some, I think the way the Budget Committee talked about it, the consensus I got is that we don’t like it but it is probably what we need to do and when we talked about the Middle School sports four years ago, the parents after the fact said rather than eliminating them, let us pay for them because we are already paying for the younger kids programs and a lot of the high school kids are paying significant amounts for other sports in addition to the high school sports that our kids participate in.  So, yes, we are not happy going down, going down the pay to play route, but that’s the way it probably will go.  For people who can’t afford it, there is going to be systems in place so that no child is deprived the right to play if their family can’t afford it.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Peggy.  Flo, we did say that we would come back.

Florence Stahl:  I’m really appalled that we don’t have languages.  When my son went to Avon High School, it was Russian.  When my daughter went to Avon High School, there was a vibrant music program and she still plays the clarinet.  Folks, Avon should have the best of everything.  We should never run out of supplies.  Ever.  Teachers should not have to pay for supplies.  All of the complaints that I have heard from parents, I am with you.  I am not on the other side of that.  We are not on the other side of that.  But, as a friend of mine once said, you can’t spend the same dollar twice.  Where is the money going?  That’s the question we should be asking.  Where is it going?  You can’t pay the salaries and benefits we are paying, which is skimmed right off of the top of what goes to education and everyone is just left with the crumbs.  You can’t do both and as far as contracts, they have to start somewhere.  They have to raise the discussion.  We have to raise the issue.  We have to start somewhere.  Folks, too much money is being skimmed off.  It doesn’t happen in other school districts, certain it doesn’t happen abroad.  That’s where the money is going.  It is insulting that we should be running out of paper.  It should not happen.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Flo.  Alright, I think there was somebody on this side?  Yes.  Right on the aisle.

Lorraine Ratkiewich, 109 Rosewood Road:  I am going to be very brief.  I need to remind this group.  This whole evening has been about education and children.  There are other people living in this Town besides children who need to be thought about.  There are young people, some who can’t even stay here after they grow up.  There are taxes, and we will state the prices they are, and those of us who could stay here,  I am a 50 year resident, are finding there is a hawk overhead, a buzzard just waiting for us to fail and the increases are so huge no amount of careful planning, which I thought I did, can bridge the gap.  Let’s think about, I love children, I have plenty of them.  I have grandchildren, but does anyone here realize the portion of the tax that goes to education and there is very little thought about provision for the very young people who come back or the elderly.  There are no places for us to retire to in this Town unless we have been multi-millionaires in our lifetime.  And with the rate of inflation, you just want to see us drop dead.  That is the impression that I get.  You don’t want to hear about us.  Everything is about the children.  I want you to think about it.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you.  Somebody?  Yes?  Okay, go ahead.

Felice Wilson, 10 Yorkshire Lane:  I am a little chilly because of the rain, so sorry if I am not clear.  But, I did come here recently from a Town that I really did not support because my taxes there were more than they are here and I got half the services and the schools only performed at the 50th percentile.  I am amazed and proud of this Town.  I can’t believe I live here.  I really can’t.  And I am not saying that the taxes need to go up because, just because, because I am fiscally conservative, but I also want to make a couple other points for people to think about tonight.  Teachers pay.  My son’s teacher this year compared to what I have experienced in another district is amazing.  She earns every penny she gets and I know she pays for supplies out of pocket because there were occasions where I caught her and I have offered to pay.  Another point I want to make is that our school PTO does a lot and puts a lot of money back into our school system, so we, as parents, do pay and  add to the school out of, not out of our taxes, but also out of our pocket, so we support our schools 110%.  Um, and the last thing I want to say about the Town, and things to consider, is that we all know the price of energy has gone up a lot and we are feeling it in our pockets, paying our bills month after month and in our homes.  Think about what we are asking the Town to do in terms of running the electricity for this building tonight.  You know, it costs money to run a Town, whether it is the Town side of the budget or the school side of the budget, we have infrastructure we need to support.  And I feel badly for those who are struggling to make ends meet and I do hope that those who are struggling are seeking the support and the help they need to help them stay in our Town because the people have been here a long time have a history.  They can teach us a lot, but, you know, if everybody leaves because of the taxes, we don’t learn from you guys either.  So, I don’t, I feel badly, but I, you know, I really feel that we need to support our Town and I don’t know how I am going to vote.  I am really caught in the middle.  Historically, I haven’t voted in support of the Town that I lived in, but, you know, I am just amazed at how much we get for our money.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you very much.  Okay, Linda.

Linda Merlin:  Okay.  I just had two things that I wanted to respond to.  First, for the speaker who doesn’t feel the community doesn’t take care of the senior community.  I feel so badly that she feels that way.  We are not all just about our kids.  I know that I, several years ago when I got involved in the process and started to understand how it works, I went to the Town Council and asked them to increase the relief that they offer and they did.  I would have liked a little bit more.  I do feel that the entire community benefits by keeping our seniors in Town, and as far as services you mentioned, someone on the Board of Ed, who has children in the schools this year, tried to help keep seniors in this Town and make it more comfortable for them.  It benefits us all, but it also benefits us all to take care of our children and the reason this is special as far as children is because (inaudible) these budgets have failed, and I just think that’s why.  It’s not that we don’t care about the greater community.  Many of us do.  I also, I had a speech that I decided to forego, but when salaries were brought up, I kind of feel that it is time to talk about them, so, it’s not a very long speech, but

Chairman Harrison:  This is your second time, so just

Linda Merlin:  Someone else said something, so that is what I am responding to.  Um, let’s see.  I am cutting out half of it anyway.  Um, I am trying to figure out where to start.  Um.  Okay.  This has become part of the budget process.  We are constantly being told that teacher’s salaries are the enemy and the implication is that they are overpaid and overvalued.  This is both misleading and offensive.  First of all, Avon has some of the best teachers anywhere.  My own children’s teachers go above and beyond in so many ways and those who attack them simply have no idea what is involved in education in this day and age.  But, even more importantly, their salaries are not the enemy.  This is a something that is tossed around too long and is really starting to stink.  The real enemy has been credible.  The reason we have to spend more on teacher is not because we are paying them too much each year or because they are not entitled to their increases, but because the growth in Avon has been so tremendous that we need to hire more teachers to meet the enrollment needs.  And that simply doesn’t pay for itself.  Everyone now knows that.  It is outrageous to imply that it is somehow the teacher’s fault that we have our budget problems.  In fact, the real culprit to this tremendous growth, things like unfunded mandates, the fact that Connecticut is one of the last states in the country to fund education primarily through property taxes.  These are the legitimate issues that need to be addressed, but teachers are not the problem at all and I think we should stop making them the culprit.  It’s time that parents interested in the community come to their defense in overwhelming numbers.  They do so much more than educate.  They encourage, they support, they motivate them and inspire with humor and wisdom and so much more.  I am concerned that their morale at this point is being severely undermined by these attacks and by knowing that they are working in a community that does not support and appreciate them.  It is becoming more and more difficult to even attract the teachers to come to work here because of the lack of support, another casualty of this budget process.  Is that what you want Avon to become known for?  I hope not and I hope that our teachers know that some of us appreciate them greatly and I would ask that the rest of this community think long and hard about the real cause of our problems when they continue to buy in to those who degrade our teachers.  If you are not willing to support our teachers and educating our kids, then that is truly a sad time.  It is the education of our young that makes a community and a country and ultimately the future bright and strong in this ever more competitive and complex world.  We should never forget this.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Linda.  I think that the issue is not that people are attacking teachers per say, it’s the percentage of the budget that goes to teacher’s salaries and benefits.  Right.  I don’t think people are against teacher’s per say, but

Linda Merlin:  People say that they are overpaid and

Chairman Harrison:  Okay. I just wanted to make that clear.  I don’t know.  Okay. Is there anybody else that hasn’t spoken?  Have you spoken?

Carol Shubinski, 34 Oakengates:  I voted yes for the last two budgets that failed and I will vote yes for this one and I would like to commend the Town, the Board of Finance and the Board of Education and the Town Council for putting so much work over the last several months coming in with the budget.  Although I have voted yes for the budget, I think it stinks, but I don’t think that because I think it stinks I should vote no because I think that the message just gets garbled.  I know that people who live in Avon also work in the Avon schools and when we vote no, we are affecting people who live in our Town that are going to lose their jobs.  But, I also feel that this process is really ugly.  Um, people feel very emotional, I feel emotional right now, but, um, I would actually like to see us try to fix the process going forward because I think next year with the revaluation year, it is just going to get worse.  And, you know, there are different ways to go about that.  Not every Town automatically goes to referendum.  Some Towns make people gather signatures if they want a referendum on the budget.  Now I would like to talk about voter turnout, um, and how low it is.  And I know that the Town Charter currently says that if less than 9% of the people turn out, then the budget automatically passes regardless of what the yes and no breakdown was.  Another way to do that would be to raise that number higher so that we are not help captive to the low voter turnout because there are a lot of people out there that don’t vote and we can’t conclude by their not voting that they are against it or for it.  We just don’t know what they think.  Um, if we require a higher percentage to turn out, then everybody would be motivated to get people to turn out and vote because they want their vote to count.  Just some things to think about going forward so that we can sort of keep our Town unity and keep it friendly here because I feel like this process is between the people who want it higher and people who want it lower and our elected officials are the people who are supposed to bear the brunt of that and come out where they think the Town should be, I mean, fiscally responsible.  I would like to see the Board of Finance and the Town Council and the Board of Ed to have more power to kind of keep the budget where they feel that they, where it should be because you guys spend the most time analyzing and analyzing and cutting and adding and doing all these things and as it’s hard for us to invest that time and really have the educated decisions that you guy do.  So, thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Carol.  Um, anybody else for first-timers?  Yes, Leslie.

Leslie Gordon, 70 Cold Spring Road:  I also didn’t want to talk, but I have found these meeting incredibly disturbing.  This is the first year that I have become involved in Town meetings, and I find it sad because I tend to like to look at people and the things that we have in commons rather than the differences that we have.  And, I think that these meetings really bring out the worst in all of us.  So, I guess my first, my first point would be that when this is all over, and the budget is finally set, that, if you could all join me in, um, in setting a goal for yourself in reaching out to somebody and just, maybe a little random act of kindness or something and maybe we can go about healing some of the bad feelings that we have built up over this process.  Then, a few other things.  The PTO at Roaring Brook School, I can speak for because I was the President there this year and I will say that there were many many things that we buy for the schools that I personally feel should be coming from the School Board budget and many of those items that we bought this year had to do with the safety of the children in the schools, like walkie-talkies.  So, I mean, I don’t know if you have ever been to Roaring Brook School, but it is enormous and because of the way our world is now, we have to have this special equipment in our schools so if some whack nut comes in with a gun, they have some way of communicating that half mile or so from this end of the school to the other end of the school, and we also purchased an AED machine for anyone that might come in to our school or someone who works there that might need to have some resuscitation done.  We also paid for school books, um, library books, um for the Library, which I don’t think they got any from the School Board budget last year.  No library books.  We also supplied money for each one of the teachers for their classrooms so that they could buy supplies.  We gave them each $200 at the beginning of the year so that they would hopefully not have to take too much out of their pockets.  We also paid for all of the cultural programs in the school, field trips and the list goes on and on.  And I am happy to supply that list to anybody who might because I am very intimate with it.  So, and then, like I said, I don’t like to be made to feel guilty for caring about my children and the kind of education that they are getting because I think that is the job of a parent is to take care of their children.  And then, I guess I would like to say that one of the most, the biggest disappointments for me in this whole process was that the parents did not get out to vote and I can totally understand that because it is very difficult even to get to these meetings and um, they just didn’t vote.  They are busy, they have kids in sports and they are trying to get their kids in bed and they are trying to read books every night before bed and they are trying to have dinner all together and it is very very difficult to do all of those things and make these meetings that make you feel worse when you come to them a priority.  Okay, so, I would encourage all of the parents here and all of the people who have supported this budget to, to talk to their friends and start sending e-mails and start telling your friends how important their vote is, even that one vote.  I made my husband drive back from Hartford for the last vote.  He was not happy and he did not want to, but he knew how important is was and he voted and I looked at that voter list from the last time and there were a lot of people, a lot of my friends even, who didn’t vote, and that is very disappointing to me.  So, I would encourage you all to ask your friends to vote.  Lastly, I have, I have been to all of the Board of Ed meetings this year.  I have had private meetings with Dr. Kisiel.  The PTO Presidents meet with him.  If he could please, just clarify for everybody here about the teacher contracts, the teacher unions and I don’t think that people understand that there is really nothing that can be done once those contracts are negotiated and I think that there is a misunderstanding with that, so if that could just be clarified, and then, back to my original point as I sit down, just have kindness toward our neighbors so that we can get this all behind us and thank you all for your work.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Leslie.  

Dr. Kisiel:  I think she summarized the issues regarding the teacher’s contract very nicely.  I think that the Board during this year’s negotiations with the teachers recognized the fiscal responsibility of the Town and tried to negotiate salaries that are very good for both sides, the Town and the teachers.  Hearing the Avon Taxpayers Association for many years waive the salaries in front of us at public meetings, I think that brought the attention to the Board of Education and the suggestion from the Taxpayers Association the challenge for us, the challenge to go through arbitration and they did.  2.2, 3.1, 2.4.  That is set at this point, so I think, that is the outcome, and that is the salary that we will all live with over the next three years.  Just to comment on the last speaker a little bit, um, and I know that the PTO has been very very supportive.  This year our Pine Grove School is seeing about a third of the total cost about $13,000 out of $39,000, $13,000 for books.  Sorry, that’s Roaring Brook School.  The other three schools share the rest of the dollars, but clearly, the PTOs have been a true supporter of education in many ways.  So, I hope that clarifies a couple of things.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, Dr. Kisiel.  Anybody have anything new to say?  Anybody who hasn’t spoken yet?  While the speaker is coming up, the point that Leslie made, I think, Leslie, that the longer these proceedings drag out, the more tensions develop and that I think it is inevitable that people feel very strongly, emotions are there.  Part of me says let’s vote the thing in and get it over with and then go on to try to fix some of the things that we need to fix.  Alright, sir, I’m sorry.

Lee Creer, 25 Carriage Drive:  I just have a very general question.  I don’t understand why there is all this need for cutting when the budget is increased, I mean the taxpayers are going to have to pay 3.8% more than they have been in the past.  How many percentage is the budget going up over last year?  And is it more because of inflation?  

Chairman Harrison:  The spending increase for all the budgets combined, I think, is I have, it’s on one of our slides, it’s 5.2% I think.  It’s 5.2%, 5.3% increase in spending for all schools, sewers, debt service, all of that.  That requires a 3.8% tax increase.  The original budgets as proposed and submitted to us by the end of March had a much higher spending level.  The spending level then was about $72.3 million and now it’s $70.3.  So, the total spending has been reduced from the original requests and that is the reason why

Lee Creer:  But when we are talking about cuts from the original requests

Chairman Harrison:  There were reductions from the one that was defeated, the second referendum, they made about, um , was it

Bill Hooper:  I think I can answer your question, sir.

Lee Creer:  My question is this, if we increase by 3.8% or 2.9%, which has been our historical increase in taxes, why would that increase in taxes require the programs that they are paying for be cut?

Bill Hooper:  I can answer it, I believe.  Number one, we have the new high school coming on line, which was already approved.  There is $420,000 right there above inflation.  Number two, is the bonds for the high school.  We are going to have to start paying principle interest on those bonds, which were already approved.  Utility increases, those things go up, and they are going up higher than inflation, but the thing that I am getting at are things that are not even included in inflation, the $425,000 for the high school, the bonds for the high school, those are above that.  That is why we come up with the 3.8.

Lee Creer:  Thank you very much.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, sir.  Sonja, I said that I would call you next, then the gentleman on the end here will be next.

Sonja Larkin-Thorne:  I have a question and a comment.  First of all, I find these discussions to be extremely healthy.  I retired as Vice President of a Fortune 100 insurance company and have participated in discussions all of my life, starting at 18 and getting involved with the political process, so as I listen to people talk, I learn a lot and I don’t internalize it or take it personally at all.  I think it is a healthy discussion about the issues of concern to everyone of us that live in this Town and pay taxes.  To the people are taking it personally, I don’t think that they mean it that way and you shouldn’t.  I do believe, though, that we have to have this type of discussion and there should be nothing to undo.  It is important that people clearly understand what goes on in their Town and take leadership for that as citizens and property owners, taxpayers, etcetera.  And, as people talk about that, you’re right, Terry and I just sat back there and laughed.  We don’t agree on this budget and we don’t agree how we are going to vote on this budget, but we feel both, that we have a vested interest and we can have an honest and open exchange about what is going on and not make it divisive.  But, Peggy, I have another question for you because I was not satisfied with your answer and that is, we know that we are facing increased cost in everything.  In the new high school and paying the bonds for that.  I am tired of hearing that it is under consideration.  There are real needs that need to be met and consolidation that needs to take place in this Town in order for us to continue to provide the quality of education and service that parents want and other residents of this Town also need.  And, so, as I look at your budget and I look at the fact that as Terry told me, you have two snow plows at Pine Grove and Roaring Brook, um, and this and that and the other, those are service, and the schools are closed for heavy snow days and I don’t have a child that has ever gone to school in Avon, but I know when they are closed because of kids in my neighborhood.  I think that if you really want people in this Town to support the education budget, then they have to see a real effort on the part of the Board of Ed to consolidate services with the Town, building, grounds, snow plowing, purchasing, so you can continue to maintain the quality of education in the Town of Avon.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Yes, the gentleman right here.

David Kotler, 89 Beverly Drive:  I have a question.  It has been mentioned that the Town Charter says that if the referendum fails three times, then the Board can essentially do what they want.  What would it take to change the Charter so there was a more well defined outcome in the event of three failed referendums?

Chairman Harrison:  John, do you want to take this?

John Carlson:  Under the Town Charter and I believe State Statute as well, every ten years, we have, the Town Council has the right to form a Charter Revision Committee if we so chose to do so.  That ten year period is actually coming up before us and I have received some requests to address that issue, the issue of Charter revision.  I don’t know which way the Council will go on this, whether to form a committee or not.  I can tell you personally, I have not seen large systemic reasons for believing we need to do a Charter revision.  For those that argue that we should do one because it separates the votes between the Council and the Board of Ed, okay, frankly, as a Council member, it would probably be better off if it did, but I think that is the wrong way to go.  I live in a community and I want the whole thing to be voted on at once.  There are lots of services I don’t use.  Okay?  There are fire service, police service, there is a pool back here, there is this building used for these lovely meetings that I don’t use, but do I believe that we should have each one of them, yes I do.  So, it’s a long winded answer, I apologize.  Earlier there was some discussion regarding leadership.  Leadership is stating what you feel.  I just stated how I feel.  I think our Charter is fine.  It is a disappointing fact that people haven’t come out to vote.  I don’t pull to the premise that there are people here who vote as seniors always against the budget.  I ran into a woman I have known for 42 year tonight and she is here in the room, she is still here, she is one of my favorite people in this Town.  She told me that she has voted three times, or twice, for this budget.  She hasn’t had a child in the school system in probably 25 years.  Okay?  She is in favor of the budget.  On the other hand, I ran into a parent of three.  I have a pretty good idea on their vote.  They are against it.  That is their right and I respect it greatly.  I have a lot more respect for those than those who chose not to come out and vote.  So, leadership is saying the following:  5.75% budget was one that I thought we should support.  The most recent one that was defeated was the one that I thought we should support and the one that will be put in front of you on June 25th remains at 3.84% is one that I support and I am going to ask you for your support of it as well.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Thank you, John.  Mr. Thier?

Cliff Thier:  I just have a question and maybe you can answer it.  An earlier speaker said that she had seen the voter rolls and which of her neighbors voted and didn’t vote and I found that very surprising.  That seems to be a breach of voter confidentiality.  How does that take place?

Chairman Harrison:  How people vote is private, but who votes, those lists of people who come out to vote, you show your ID and your name is checked off on a list, those lists are public information and anybody can ask to see that after an election, or referendum.  

Cliff Thier:  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Anyone else?  All the way in the back.  Yes, the gentleman, yes you, sir, looking back to the fireplace.  

Terry Dilozir:  I would like to ask what the percentage or amount of money the State of Connecticut funds our Board of Education compared to other Towns.

Chairman Harrison:  Do you mean how much State aid does Avon get?

Terry Dilozir:  I understand that Hartford gets $5 million and Avon gets about $50,000.  Who chooses who gets what?

Chairman Harrison:  That is the million dollar secret.  The legislature has formulas, the legislature hasn’t always followed the formulas.  There is this thing called politics that has been known to happen with big city mayors and their representatives.  They give more money to the smaller Towns sometimes.

Terry Dilozir:  Now, what if we all lobbied against the State and said hey, there are 1,700 people that voted no and we would all like to lobby to the State and say, hey, we are getting the short end of the stick.  Give us some more.  Would that help?  Should we petition?

Chairman Harrison:  It wouldn’t hurt, but I can’t guarantee that it would help, but it can’t do any harm.

Terry Dilozir:  What is the procedure on that, on finding the formula to find out how much you get in funding as compared to the other Towns?

Chairman Harrison:  I believe, is it the State Department of Education, Policy and management has a website, it’s under ctgov/opm, I believe.

Terry Dilozir:  At the next vote, could we have a petition asking that?

Chairman Harrison:  I don’t know that we could do it that quickly, but certainly you always have the opportunity, you mean, you want to have petitions at the polling place?  I don’t think that we can do that in conjunction with the referendum.  There are restrictions on advocacy during an election or referendum, but the idea is solid in terms of, you know, petitioning the legislature.

Peggy Roell:  If he wants to do it 75 feet away, then

Chairman Harrison:  Yes, yes.  If the Town, the elected bodies of Town administrations cannot do it, but a private citizen, as long as you are 75 feet away from the entrance of the polling place, you can seek petitions or signatures for any particular cause, so, but Town elected bodies cannot do it.

Terry Dilozir:  Can we make photocopies and have teachers hand them out to all of the students.

Chairman Harrison:  No advocacy in the schools.  Thank you, sir.  Anyone else?  Yes?

AnnMarie Snow, 90 Secret Lake Road:  I am not trying to, I am not privy to any of the papers for teacher’s salaries, but because it has been brought up on a couple of issues before with the thought as though somehow there was a contract in the teacher’s salaries.  There was, I thought that the tenor of some of the conversations was that the teacher’s salaries seem very high to some people.  I don’t really know what they are, but based on this Board of Ed handout where it is stating a 50% person and a 26.9 figure, you know, and looking at a $53,000 salary, I am a nurse myself, but I have multiple friends that are teachers in various Towns throughout the State and definitely, if this is the range for salaries, that is comparable to any Town in the State, so I’m not, you know, it’s not lower than other Towns in the State, so, I just wanted to throw that out there that if people are unaware of what salaries are.  In fact, they are in this range or higher in every Town that I have a friend teaching in.  That’s all.  Thank you.

Chairman Harrison:  Do either one of you want to address that?  Okay, yes.

Felice Wilson:  There is something that I forgot to mention earlier, um, before when

Chairman Harrison:  Can you just state your name again please?

Felice Wilson: Felice Wilson, and before we moved to Avon, we looked at the Carolinas and the Carolinas has had a lot of growth and development and I think this Town, and correct me if I am wrong, has gone through the same thing.  We have a lot of new development in this Town and the taxes that these developments are, I mean, they are paying a lot of taxes, they might be paying $15,000 on their property if not more, but, um, but they might have 2 or 3 kids going into the school, so my point is that the $15,000 isn’t even paying for the kids going through the school.  And what they did in the Carolinas is that they decided to assess a $20,000 fee to the builders per property that were being built upon to help support the infrastructure and

Chairman Harrison:  I don’t mean to cut you off, but in Connecticut, we cannot do that.

Felice Wilson:  Oh, we can’t?  Oh, I’m sorry.  Now I know why it hasn’t been done.  And then the other thing that I want to say is that I know that you guys have worked really hard because I live very close to one of you, um, but I know you guys work really hard and I am really proud of the job that you have done.  I am just trying to come up with new ideas and I am sorry

Chairman Harrison:  Well, thank you, no it’s a good idea, and maybe we can get something changed down the road, but right now, we cannot do that.  Anybody else?  Going once, going twice?  All right, well, thank you, oh, I’m sorry, is there somebody, okay, you will be the last one.  The last shall be first.

Jon Nicoll, 23 Hollister Drive:  I have one question.  Why didn’t we have the Pledge of Allegiance?  

Chairman Harrison:  Because I forgot.  It’s on my agenda, but I just skipped over it.  Sorry.  Okay.  What will happen now before we adjourn, I will just make that clear, the Board of Finance will meet in the next few minutes and make a decision on whether to keep the budget that goes to the referendum the same as what is here tonight or make adjustments and at that point, a legal notice will be signed and it will be in the paper and it will be here on June 25th, 6 am to 8 pm.  Please come out and vote and if you don’t, don’t complain.  Thank you all.

The meeting adjourned at 9:31 p.m.