AVON TOWN COUNCIL
MEETING MINUTES
November 13, 2012
I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. at the Avon Town Hall, in the Avon Room by Chairman Zacchio. Members present: Mrs. Samul, Messrs. Pena, Evans, and May.
II. PUBLIC HEARING - None
III. MINUTES OF PRECEDING MEETING: None
IV. COMMUNICATION FROM AUDIENCE - None
V. COMMUNICATION FROM COUNCIL - None
VI. OLD BUSINESS
12/13-06 FY 13/14 Budget: CIP Budget Presentations
a. Recreation and Parks - a power point presentation is attached and made part of these minutes
Glenn Marston, Director of Recreation and Parks, reported that a number of items are moving in sequence and a lot of the capital improvement program is based on their Master Plan which was done at the end of 2007/early 2008 and approved by the Town Council as a guideline as to where we were going to go. He noted that the first of two items, Sycamore Hills courts, was proposed for FY 12/13 and because of circumstances last year was moved back a year. He commented that we really need to move on this so we are not faced with a situation where the courts deteriorate to the point where we have to do a complete reconstruction. He added that the courts are approximately fifteen years old. He noted two significant problems other than just repainting, the surface is wearing out and there are a couple of
cracks that are fairly significant. He reported that the other item for next year is the Sycamore Hills pool painting which has been put onto some type of a cycle so we can build the epoxy layer and instead of spending up to $20,000 each time we did it because the surface remained, instead of spending $30,000 because we had to prime and we were down to bare concrete. He noted that we have stayed on this cycle and the pool looks 100% better when the paint is not faded and chipped; there is a significant difference and it does cause problems with the water when bare concrete is exposed. These two items are a priority for the next fiscal year. Mr. Evans questioned if the funding is approved for FY 13/14 when would the projects be done. Mr. Marston responded his goal would be to commence the projects when the summer ends next year, shut down the tennis courts around approximately September 1st. Chairman Zacchio commented that with the new
courts at the Middle School it should help with Sycamore Hills not being available. Mr. Marston responded that we can sustain it in September because the use is more public use and not scheduled use.
Chairman Zacchio commented, while on the subject of resurfacing, on the track at the High School; he has not seen it in the maintenance plans for the Board of Education’s capital budgets but having been down on the track quite a bit it is definitely starting to show its age, especially the inside lanes along the home side; there are some significant cracks. He questioned where that is going to fall into a capital item, whether it is the Board of Education or the Town. He recalled that there was a lot of public and private funding behind that. He asked the Town Manager to follow up with the Superintendent of Schools in terms of where that falls in the CIP budget and how we are going to handle that because to Mr. Marston’s point, if we let some of the surfacing issues go too far that we are
going to be into completely rebuilding it. The Town Manager responded that he did drop a note to John Spang, Director of Finance and Operations, about it as he had noticed some significant cracking on the track as well. The Board of Education was going to look into it. Mr. Marston commented that it is a different type of surfacing but some of the same companies deal with all of those types of surfaces. He added that it would fall into the Board of Education’s property.
Mr. Marston reported that with the cracks on the Sycamore Hills courts they are recommending an armor seal. He noted that no crack repair is forever but a lot of the cracking here is from age. Mrs. Samul questioned if the subsurface is fine and not like the Middle School tennis courts. Mr. Marston responded that we are dealing with the asphalt shrinking. He noted that a reputable tennis company would tell you that you are going to see those problems twelve to fifteen years in.
Mr. Marston reported that the FY 14/15 project would be the field development at Fisher Meadows. He noted that with some recent developments the question is, are both necessary. He commented that the Fisher Meadows project solves a completely different problem from a turf field game situation. We are in need of more space and it allows us to consolidate the operation; reclaim four full-sized fields by moving the smaller fields out and reclaiming a baseball/softball field that has been used for soccer for fifteen years. He noted that baseball and softball is larger now than it has probably been in twenty years; those fields are expensive to build so by reclaiming a field that we already have it would help us and consolidate some of our field maintenance operation into one site rather than
transporting all over for small satellite sites. This item has been in the Plan for some time.
Mr. Marston reported that the Fisher Meadows lake connection has been talked about for twenty years; the pipe connecting Spring Lake and Willow Pond is either plugged or was crushed during the Fisher Meadows construction. The only logical time to attempt to deal with this would be with any road realignment or reconstruction so hoping that should all of this come together this might involve the Old Farms Road bridge realignment. Chairman Zacchio questioned the purpose of the pipe. Mr. Marston responded that Spring Lake is a 41-acre lake on Fisher Meadows property; there is no inlet to the lake and is entirely spring fed so long ago the freshwater feed from Willow Pond (Thompson Brook) into Fisher Meadows to bring freshwater into it and flush it out and something has happened to it as there is no water
currently flowing through. Chairman Zacchio questioned if it has an adverse effect on Spring Lake. Mr. Marston responded yes because there is no inlet and during low water times there is no water coming in except out of the ground. The Town Manager added that in addition to the pipe that appears to be crushed there are also other drainage issues that are occurring at Fisher Meadows, probably some of the drains are just backed up so it is very possible that this spring we will come forward with a supplemental appropriation request from the Fisher Meadows Special Revenue Fund to bring someone in to snake a camera into some of these drains to see what the blockages are and if the pipes are not actually crushed just to flush them out. Mr. Marston commented that the park is thirty-years old and we are having some drainage problems there that did not exist ten years ago that are sneaking up to the point where a field had to be shut down this year because we could
not dry it out.
He reported that we have talked about the parking lot at Sperry Park numerous times; parking is difficult on a good day. He noted that it is a better situation than it was now that the school is gone but still very primitive parking and it is pioneer parking. This is in the Master Plan. There also is some sentiment from Little League for another ball field as indicated on the Master Plan as they are attempting to bring softball into the complex because the girls are spread out all over Town.
He noted that other capital project items have not moved up too much in priority because of so many of the other things that need to be done; some of them just maintenance related. Mrs. Samul questioned what the renovations are to the Senior Center Community Room. Mr. Marston responded this is about possible expansion if necessary and has probably been in the Master Plan for twelve to fifteen years; keeps getting moved back because we seem to be handling what we are dealing with right now. He noted that we could use another room there for a lot of reasons. Mrs. Samul questioned that even though we have more rooms available for functions at the Library we still need more space at the Senior Center. Mr. Marston responded maybe, it depends on what the policy is on my department’s use of
the Library and we are looking at some of those now; in terms of groups using it, it would depend on what they are using it for – simple meeting space, yes but some of the events that go on at the Senior Center for the non-profits would not fit in the Library. He noted that the craft room at the Senior Center could be used for more than it is; we accepted the donation of a pool table and it dominates that room and virtually immovable because it is slate. Mrs. Samul commented that what is being said is that it would be beneficial to have another room there for crafts and other activities. Mr. Marston responded yes but probably not at the expense of other projects that have a higher priority that are maintenance related.
He noted that Countryside Park is going to need some renovation as it is getting a little weary and old; Thompson Brook court lighting is solely for the purpose of private funding – it stays on the five-year plan and if someone came in and gave us a check to light the courts we would do that process and move it up but right now with the Middle School moving along he cannot rationalize that for the use at the expense of other things.
He reported on the Thompson Road Master Plan based on maximizing what we may need and taking the available facilities that we have and putting them in with preliminary spacing and everything else. It is a $3+ million project or things can be moved around and maybe not as much done there; parking would have to be improved on the site. He noted that the last person he spoke to about this football drives the parking capacity as it draws far more than the others will on an event basis. Chairman Zacchio questioned if there is any idea for a track there. Mr. Marston responded that it was not put on there but it could be placed near the football field. Chairman Zacchio commented that the limitation of the track at the High School was a space issue that is not a full size competition track. Mr.
May questioned if we ever gave consideration to putting an artificial turf at the High School where the field is right now instead of going with something like this. Mr. Marston responded yes; part of the Master Plan was right around the time that all of this was coming up. We had the architect in the Plan look at the High School because it would be the first place that you look to do infrastructures, parking is there, it is already flat but there were problems with the space that was available for this as the area inside the track would not be big enough for soccer and in order to do this correctly you would have to change the shape of the track which would be more oval and would have moved the baseball field and unusable and the current u-shaped parking lot at the High School that was built is right where this field would have to be expanded to. Chairman Zacchio added that we had limitations, like $1.5 million in private money to put behind that, we had zoning
issues in terms of the lights, and when you put lights on an all-purpose athletic field you get thirty or forty night games a school season which caused some issues with Planning and Zoning Commission in terms of the area. He commented that we also had trouble in terms of size because it was not big enough to play soccer so when we looked at a field like this we want to be able to play lacrosse, soccer, football, and every sport that you can get under the sun on it and use it as much as you possibly could plus there are limitations for grandstands, concession stands, etc. Mr. Marston reported that they commissioned them to look at because when the question came up this has to be at the High School.
Mrs. Samul questioned if we do Thompson Road as a flexible field will the High School football games automatically be transferred there because it seems to her that you would want those to stay on campus. Chairman Zacchio responded not automatically but he thinks that would probably be the expectation. Mr. Marston commented that you would build a facility that you want to have the High School games at Thompson Road; the whole thing with the artificial surfacing is where the High School can accommodate twelve to fifteen events, at Thompson Road you’ll get three hundred; it is a better surface to play on because there is a consistency. He noted that our High School varsity soccer team did not play a state tournament game today at Fisher Meadows because it was too wet and they took a lot of grief for
it from the opposition; that is a situation that goes away here. He added that youth soccer and youth lacrosse are plagued with the same problems. Mrs. Samul stated that her question is just circling around high school events at the High School. Chairman Zacchio commented that high school baseball is played at Buckingham. He added that we would rather have it at the High School for sure but the constraint and the size of the physical property is what this was born from at the time because we know that we will not have the physical space to do an all-purpose field where it is. Mrs. Samul questioned if we cannot modify whatever is at the High School to be designated for just one sport and use the Thompson Road athletic fields for everything else. Chairman Zacchio responded that if you are going to spend this kind of money eventually you want to be able to incorporate all of the sports. Chairman Zacchio commented that this would be a town
field and would be the Recreation and Parks’ authority to use for various events and start to drive a revenue center at it for maintenance. Mrs. Samul inquired if we have a summary of the number of fields and their location. Mr. Marston responded all of that information is in the Master Plan – asked all of the groups what they had five years prior, what they have now, what they anticipate five years from now and that was what drove the Plan. Chairman Zacchio commented that this is pretty similar to what Canton and Granby has done. He added that this is a lot more mature than it was even when we looked at it at the High School in terms of the number of contractors out there and the methodology to get behind it. A resident asked why this topic suddenly bubbled up again. Chairman Zacchio responded that there has been a lot of interest with the boosters and among a lot of parents who are interested in hearing more about it; this field
although it was conceptual in 2007 on the Master Plan, the purchase of this property was done for the reason to use it as an athletic facility at some point. He added that the property became clean last fall following the winter storm and now that it has been remediated are we going to dust off those plans and start thinking about what that means. The resident asked if we would bond this. Chairman Zacchio responded that this would be something that would probably have to be bonded depending on how much public and private fundraising is raised. The resident added that we just did the Library and the tennis courts. Chairman Zacchio responded that this offers an interesting opportunity for it covers all sports truly it does encompass a much larger population of people who would enjoy it and from a community perspective Friday night football or Saturday night soccer would attract a lot of attention and a lot of revenue in terms of what comes through the
door. The resident asked because we do have these kinds of fields elsewhere did anybody think about an indoor pool and a recreation center for gymnastics. Chairman Zacchio responded that we do not have fields like this; they would be athletic, all-purpose turf. The resident’s point is that we already have ball fields but we do not have an indoor pool, gymnastics, or basketball court facility. Chairman Zacchio asked Mr. Marston if there was anything on the Master Plan that was recommended for that. Mr. Marston responded that the only real option on the pool would be to attach it to a secondary school building because municipally free-standing indoor pools have monumental expenses and are very difficult to pay for themselves; attached to a school you would get school funding. He noted that was the first time he has heard this come up in probably five to eight years. There is always the idea of a community type center; we do have access
for basketball at all five schools almost as we need them. He added that he would love to have another facility where he could run more activities and controlled everything. He concluded that the first step in this process would be to do soil testing to see if the site would support this facility, the likelihood is yes.
Mr. Marston commented that the Park and Recreation Department’s goal is to continue to plug away at people’s interest; ultimately we do what the people who live here want us to do, and figure out what the next step in the process is.
b. Avon Volunteer Fire Department - a power point presentation is attached and made part of these minutes
Mr. Sedlak, President, introduced Rob Shillington, Vice President, and acknowledged Fire Chief Mike Trick in attendance as well. He reported that tonight is not about getting stuff but about the sustainability of the volunteer fire department. They need to retain and recruit members and by having capital items it helps them with that; the alternative is at some point in time to pay firefighters and that is going to cost a lot more than what they would be looking for so there is a definite return on investment.
Mr. Shillington highlighted the summary of their FY 13/14 capital budget requests, including fire apparatus replacement, the multi-town training facility, and water supply concerns with cisterns. He reported that their first major need is to replace the Engine 9 1994 pumper; their main piece of apparatus at Company #1. He added that there are a lot of body and corrosion issues. Chairman Zacchio questioned if this is the one that is in the budget to replace now. Mr. Sedlak responded that it will come down to whichever piece is worse at the time of approval, either Engine 9 or Engine 7. Chief Trick commented that we have two-thirds of the funds for a new engine. Chairman Zacchio questioned how much is in capital this year to finish this project. The Town Manager responded that in
the current year there is $200,000. Mr. Sedlak commented that every year we wait the cost of apparatus goes up because of the NFPA standards. Chief Trick added that the large cost increases of apparatus now are being driven by compliance with now the Tier 3 level of EPA emissions. Chairman Zacchio responded that we are paying for that either way. Mr. Shillington reported that where our cost gets concerning is retrofitting the trucks to fit into the some of the stations that we have. Mr. Evans clarified that by engine replacement does it mean what it says. Mr. Shillington responded that it is the entire apparatus, not just the engine itself. Chief Trick reported that they are actually three apparatus short right now in accordance with their ten-year program of apparatus replacement. He added that 2001 was when the last apparatus was purchased by the Town which was Ladder 12.
Mr. Shillington reported that Engine 7 needs replacement after Engine 9; that is their need right now but could change by the needs of the Town and how quickly something like this can happen from an expense perspective. Mrs. Samul asked if it makes any sense at all to change the access to the buildings so we do not have to modify an engine. Mr. Sedlak responded that the issue at Company #4 is beyond just changing the door; below the bays are the recreation area and you can only support so much weight. Mrs. Samul questioned that we are always going to be paying extra. Chief Trick responded that it is not so much extra cost in the design, it is the design of the apparatus as we have limitations in the length-size, width, and heights of this apparatus and move towards a commonality in their apparatus
in two concepts: 1) try to get them built all as a rescue pumper; overall in history we are having a decline in the age and the sustainable workforce. They have gotten peaks in their recruitment and retention due to aggressive efforts but in the long-term we anticipate a trend down and as a result trying to design a multi-use apparatus that can perform the functions of two apparatus therefore out of every station their long-term goal is to have a similar apparatus so that they can go to multiple calls with one apparatus. Mrs. Samul clarified that the build of it is not a negative, it is a fact. Chief Trick commented that Secret Lake is the negative. Mrs. Samul commented that they are moving to a multi-purpose engine and the size of the engine is therefore not a negative that we are paying extra for as it appears on that slide. Mr. Shillington responded that the negative comes in where they are looking at building a multi-purpose apparatus and putting
more on that apparatus than they currently have on the existing ones now; to put more and shrink the size of it to fit is a negative. Chief Trick added that something has to be sacrificed – either how much water they carry on the apparatus, how much equipment they carry or how many people they carry; they are very careful as to how to balance all of it and yet still fit within their facilities that they have. Mr. Evans questioned how much more you pay because it is customized. Chief Trick responded that it depends on what you want to get. Chairman Zacchio commented that the apparatus is built to order and because of the limitations in size of the Departments it is costing us more per engine than it normally would because we are loading them up and a lot more to one engine than if we had the ability to spread it out. Chief Trick added that they are only buying one at a time. They have been working with the suppliers and all of the “out
of box” thinking that has gone into the time that they have spent trying to design the apparatus that they have is with the full intentions of duplicating that again down the line and shave some savings off the next apparatus because the design is there.
Mrs. Samul questioned if the fire stations are functionally obsolete. Mr. Sedlak responded that Secret Lake definitely is; Huckleberry Hill is very close, maxed out with what they can put in that bay because of the weight load. Chief Trick responded that Company #3 was modified just to fit the ladder truck. Mr. Sedlak commented that they do have apparatus that sits outside - Car #19, Car #17, Truck #18 and trailers – so they do not have the storage space for everything that they have. A member of the audience commented that going with the logic of having a blueprint with great designs and buying fire trucks every nine or ten years, well nine or ten years from now when you hand that to them it will be obsolete because there will be new regulations to meet. Mr. DiPace, former Fire Chief,
reported that the last time they bought engines they bought two together and within the next year they bought the ladder truck as well, over $2 million in fire apparatus in a very short period of time. Chief Trick commented that those were Engine 10, Engine 14, and Ladder 12.
Mr. Shillington reported that they also recommend replacing Rescue 8 however the life of this apparatus could be extended by looking at the conversion of replacing Engine 7 and 9 into that multi-purpose type of apparatus. This is their main piece of apparatus with extrications from vehicles and heavy rescue and gets a lot of use and if retrofitted into some newer apparatus it allows them the ability not to use it as often which will prolong its life. He reported that Engine 11 is their 1984 pumper and primarily use it for their backup apparatus when one of their main pieces is out of service and used more often than they would like to. Chief Trick added that if Engine 10 is out of service at Secret Lake it is the only other apparatus that fits in that fire station. He commented that the issues with
Engine 11 now, as per the Public Works Department, is that it is becoming harder and harder to find parts for it. Mr. Shillington noted that it is an open cab as well so at this time of year you are usually frozen when you get to where you need to be.
Mr. Evans commented that total fire apparatus replacement request is $250,000 and he questioned what that gets them. Chief Trick responded that is the last year of the three-year request. He added that they have $400,000 right now. Mr. Evans questioned if the $650,000 will replace Engine 9. Mr. Shillington responded that is their thought as Engine 9 is their priority. Mr. Evans questioned that a single engine costs approximately $750,000 and $1 million. Mr. Shillington responded that it can. Chairman Zacchio confirmed his earlier inquiry that the $250,000 is the last of the three-year request. Mr. May questioned what happens to these apparatus when they are retired. Chief Trick responded that if there is still any marketable value they will give them to Public Works
who will auction them off, generally purchased by another fire department that can still squeeze more life out of them. Mr. May questioned if that has been here before. Mr. Shillington responded yes, their old Engine 10 was sold to a fire department in Maine. Mr. May asked if there are any provisions for us to purchase auctioned vehicles. Chief Trick responded that they have looked at used vehicles but the problem is that because almost every apparatus is custom made for the community, that either they would have to buy an apparatus, modify it to fit their needs and depending on the amount of investment you put into it you are still getting a used fire truck with every problem that you inherit with that fire apparatus. Mr. Stoll questioned if either Engine 7 or Engine 9 are a viable replacement for Engine 11. Chief Trick responded no; they will not fit into the station. Mr. Stoll questioned in their $650,000 for a new engine if that is
contemplating whatever we get back from selling Engine 7 or Engine 9. Chief Trick responded no; they cannot sell it until they have a replacement and that goes back into the equipment replacement fund.
Chairman Zacchio questioned if we need trucks and you are lining up trucks as your priority why do we have the multi-town training facility as second on the list. Mr. Sedlak responded that if they do not get into the multi-town training facility now they are not going to get in, according to Farmington. Chairman Zacchio questioned that Farmington has to build it first. Mr. Sedlak responded that Farmington is starting construction in the spring. Chairman Zacchio questioned where they are getting the money from. Mr. Sedlak responded that they are going to fund it themselves if they have to and it will only be theirs. He added that he attended a meeting with their Town Manager and they are willing to go it alone if they have to. Mr. Pena questioned the total cost with that project. Mr. Sedlak responded it is approximately $1.2 million. Chairman Zacchio added that it was his understanding that the Town of Farmington purchased the land; the Farmington Volunteer Fire Department
might go it alone if they have to, but that the Town of Farmington is not funding anything beyond the land. Mr. Sedlak responded that the Town of Farmington was committed to building this one way or another. The Town Manager clarified that it is the Farmington Volunteer Fire Department who is committed to building it.
Mr. Shillington reported on facility repairs and updates: Company #2 oil and water separator, funding for current station improvements. Mrs. Samul questioned if we have a DEEP requirement on the separator or in any kind of a violation at this point. Mr. Shillington responded no. Chief Trick added that they cannot wash apparatus at Company #2 because of the pollutant problem that could occur with Secret Lake. Chairman Zacchio noted that we had a DEEP problem with the one at Department of Public Works which is the reason for the inquiry. He expressed that in his opinion the apparatus exhaust filtration systems is a bigger issue than the Company #2 oil and water separator. He noted that none of their stations are retrofitted for them to be able to have the diesel exhaust go from the truck
directly outside of the building. He reported that additional office space and storage space is listed because they do not really have any. He reported that replacement apparatus is too large for some of the existing building structures in Town. Chairman Zacchio asked the Town Manager if we can solve the office space problem with any space that we currently have. Mrs. Samul suggested perhaps the library. Chairman Zacchio suggested the building on MH Rhodes site. Chief Trick responded that they already have one-third of the building at MH Rhodes. Mr. Shillington commented that additional office space is probably easier to tackle. He noted that they do a lot as far as committees and meetings and sometimes people meet on the same night and sometimes all of the fire stations are full and they have a lot of people from within the community that come to them and ask for use of their firehouses for meetings such as cub scouts, boy scouts,
etc. and constantly turning people away because they do not have space to accommodate them. Mrs. Samul commented that maybe some of those outside requests might be diminished by additional space at the library now. Mr. Shillington responded that there is space at the library but to get in there is extremely difficult. Chairman Zacchio asked the Town Manager to look at this list and if there are ways that we can solve this, if there is not then there are still items that are on the list. Mr. Shillington commented that with office space sometimes there are four or five people sharing an office and tough for the Chief to hold conversations or meetings while that room is being shared.
Mr. Shillington reported that the Northwest Fire Station is, on the larger scale, something that they are looking into based on the needs of the Town and the growth of the Town. He added that they are in the process of having a feasibility study done as to what the needs are of the Town not just from a fire station perspective but from an overall fire department perspective. Chairman Zacchio commented that there is a huge growth on that side of Town. Mr. Shillington stated that in addition to the problems of engines fitting in Company #2, the number of engines that are needed on that side of town there is not enough. Mr. Pena commented that even if you do have the constraints of the fire station there will also be an issue with the roads if you have bigger equipment. He questioned if they
have thought about a location somewhere else. Mr. Shillington responded that they have talked about Lovely Street. Mr. Sedlak added that there are areas across from Craigemore that would be ideal and owned by the Brighenti family. Chief Trick noted that Secret Lake was gracious enough that they reconfigured their speed bumps which have cut down on their maintenance because they had gone through additional maintenance issues with Engine 10 replacing three sets of springs and one set should not have gone that quickly. Chairman Zacchio commented that we are all probably in agreement that the time has come for that firehouse and something that has been on the horizon for awhile. Chief Trick responded that they have been talking about a Northwest Fire Station for fifteen years. Mr. Sedlak added that if you look at the constraints of Company #2 which is Secret Lake if Engine 11 goes then we have no spare piece that will fit into Company #2 in the event
if something happens to Engine 11 and that side of town will not be protected. Chief Trick added the response times are increased and not that we are not protecting our citizens. Mr. Shillington noted that from a volunteer perspective they are starting to get more volunteers from that side of town and having difficulty offering trucks for them to get on.
Mr. Shillington reported on the multi-town training facility. He noted that partnering towns include Farmington, Burlington, and Plainville. He added that some of the pros are that it allows them as firefighters to remain somewhat local to the Town of Avon when they are training and be able to respond more timely. He reported that if they were to train at the Connecticut Fire Academy in Windsor Locks would mean thirty firefighters out of town for one day when you do not have coverage from a fire perspective outside of your surrounding neighborhoods; if they can train more local it gives them the ability for their volunteers to commit on a more regular basis to attend their live events. Chairman Zacchio commented that when they travel to Windsor Locks they do mutual aid with towns surrounding us. Mr. Shillington responded that when they are out there they will reach out to Simsbury, Canton, and surrounding towns. Chief Trick added that they make sure that there is at least one
staff officer available. Mr. Shillington commented vice versa, they do the same for them, but again it comes down to response time issues and they do not know our town very well and we do not know their town as well. Mr. Pena questioned if Burlington and Plainville have decided to buy in to the facility. Chief Trick responded that Plainville and Burlington have decided not to participate.
Chairman Zacchio questioned if the Fire Department just did a live burn and what the turnout was. Chief Trick responded yes, it was in Simsbury and the turnout was excellent but they were told that in no uncertain terms that will be the last time in Simsbury. Chairman Zacchio questioned why. Chief Trick responded that their facility is starting to take increased use by other surrounding communities and it is the degradation of their building that is starting to show forth again. He added that when they closed it to the department last time it was on the eve of another fire department cooking up the fires too much and they had to go through a fairly significant costly renovation on it. He reported that Simsbury is now getting to the point again where they need to renovate the building so in
order to protect their costs they are just going to restrict it to their own department and occasionally because we are mutual aid with them, Task Force 54 will be allowed to use it for drill. Mrs. Samul questioned if Bloomfield still has a burn building. Chief Trick responded no. Chairman Zacchio questioned that if Farmington does not build this training facility, would Simsbury turn away an offer from us to help them rebuild it and be part of it; have we thought about that angle. Chief Trick responded that they have not. Chairman Zacchio commented that the whole spirit of what we have been trying to do is to think about alternatives and help each other. Chief Trick responded that he has heard it from the Council, in the almost twenty-one years that he has been involved with the Fire Department they have always been talking about doing something regional. Chairman Zacchio commented that regionalization makes sense but it still has to make
financial sense and something that we can support in front of the public that ultimately votes on this. He added that he would encourage regionalization more and more. He added that it has to go through the analysis of what makes sense and what are the alternatives. Chief Trick responded that all of the proposals that they have pushed forward, especially with the Northwest Station, they have always introduced a portion of that building that would always be set aside for training and that has not been received with the most enthusiasm so they scaled back some of their thoughts and plans for the Northwest Station and trying to put their eggs into other baskets and hopefully something will come up. Mr. DiPace commented on the situation with Simsbury, years ago many times we tried to give them money and one time we actually sent it and they sent it back; their Fire District is not interested in participating on that level and have never been. Mr. Pena
questioned if they pay when they go to another facility. Mr. Shillington responded that it depends on the facility but yes they do. Mr. Pena questioned how much we pay. Chief Trick responded that for the facility itself generally a fee for two of their instructors to monitor the use of the building, the exact cost he does not have; if you need it we will make a note of it and get it to you. Chairman Zacchio asked for a ballpark. Mr. Shillington responded that for each use it might be $500 or $600 for the manpower to be there. Mr. Pena questioned how often would we do that. Chief Trick responded that we need to have at minimum one live burn per year but they would like to have them twice a year because they do not get the structural fires that they used to. He added that a live fire is just a portion of what happens at their evolutions. Chief Trick noted that right now they are throwing ladders on the back side of Company #4;
they take the double hung windows out and throw ladders against the back of the building.
Mr. Pena questioned where Canton goes for their training. Chief Trick responded anywhere that they can and he believes that they use some of their own facilities and probably Burrville for live burns. Mr. Shillington added that Canton utilizes the Connecticut Fire Academy for classes. Chairman Zacchio confirmed that $350,000 buys Avon fourteen events. Mr. Sedlak responded that we would get 25% of the fourteen burn events per year. Chairman Zacchio added that we would utilize the facility for other uses. Chief Trick responded that they would be at the head of the line and prepare the schedule themselves. Mr. Pena clarified that there is only “x” number of burns. Mr. Sedlak responded that there are actually thirteen to fourteen burn days per year from dawn to dusk. Mr. Pena clarified that most of their firefighters only get a yearly minimum. Chief Trick responded that is a minimum. Mr. Sedlak added that is if they can make the burn dates that they have; some who did not go
on Saturday and if they do not have another one for a year then those firefighters may not have had live burn training for a year and a half or two years. Mr. Evans questioned what restricts them from using the facility in Windsor Locks more frequently. Chief Trick responded travel time. Mr. Shillington added cost is a factor as well. Mr. Evans clarified that travel time means the number of times that your firefighters are then not available in Avon to take care of fires. He added that the cost is gasoline and other energy costs to get there, the $500-$600 to supervise it and certainly a lot less than the $350,000. Mr. Sedlak added that scheduling is also a factor which is up to the Fire Academy. Chief Trick commented that generally their drill times and availability would be from 6:00 to 9:30 p.m. so it is forty-five minutes each direction, etc.
Mr. Evans commented that he totally appreciates the training component; it is a cost, benefit analysis. He questioned why they cannot send half of their Fire Department for training on one particular month and the other half the next month. Mr. Shillington responded that they do that but it comes down to scheduling conflicts. Chief Trick commented that you give them any type of scenario and they have done it and executed it. He added that it is the amount of time that their people can devote to a Saturday, the ninety minutes of travel, taking a minimum of three apparatus out of town to transport the people, and wear and tear of our buildings. Mr. Pena commented that more availability of their people going does not always equate to more people going. Chief Trick responded that if they
are committed to Monday night and they are fifteen minutes down the road those that come late, they show up to the facility with the apparatus already there and burn for a longer, expanded period of time and get more evolutions and get more people through the training that they are committed for on a Monday night. Mr. Shillington commented that the more local they are the better turnout they do have because people do have other commitments; there is a cost when members take time off from work as they work weekends.
Mr. Sedlak reported that this is a multi-use facility so the Police Department could use it for training as well. Chairman Zacchio responded that was previously discussed but there does not seem to be a lot of need for that group. He questioned if Farmington has a blueprint or an agreement; this is a lot of money to put into the capital budget, especially considering the trucks and some other needs. He added that if it was to go in the capital budget we have to explain what is behind it and the agreement and that it is a good deal for the Town of Avon. He commented that Burlington and Plainville have backed out and what once was going to be a regional approach and seemed like an “all in” situation regionally has turned into Farmington saying that they are going to go it on their own and
looking for Avon to commit some dollars to it. Mr. Sedlak responded that they originally talked about forming an LLC so the Avon Volunteer Fire Department would be a member of the LLC along with Farmington and have an agreement that way. Chairman Zacchio commented that he assumes the $350,000 does not get them a 50/50 share. Mr. Sedlak responded that we would be a 25% owner. Chairman Zacchio commented that we would have maintenance. Chief Trick responded that the maintenances issues would come out of their operating budget. Mr. Shillington commented that there is opportunity for them to collect some dollars and having some ownership in the building just as other facilities for other towns to use it; we could have the same option as well. Chairman Zacchio questioned why we would not just do that and not be an owner. Mr. Sedlak responded that there is no guarantee that it is going to be rented out. Mr. Shillington commented that
it comes to ownership; when you are renting out the facility you are at the mercy of whoever owns that facility as to what you can and cannot do. He added that based on our Town and the way that we are setup we know what our training needs are. He commented that they have been to Simsbury many times where they could not burn in the basement and they have basement fires here in Avon more than they would like to say. He added that if you cannot train the way that you should train to protect the people of the Town it is almost not worth going to that facility and spending the cost; they would not want to spend the cost to train with parameters and if you have the ownership you have more say on what you can and cannot do based on what your needs are the needs are ever changing. Mr. Sedlak commented that there is a possibility that they could host Firefighter I and Firefighter II classes for Farmington and Avon firefighters instead of paying to send them to the
Academy or one of the regional schools.
Chairman Zacchio commented that he understands the business side of it but how does that work into the payback against the initial investment that Council has to endorse and then sell in a CIP budget where there are a lot of priorities. Mr. Evans added that with capital budget you think of something that you can actually hold in your hand and purchasing an LLC is a harder sell for as much as the importance we can all agree are attached to the training and the long-term future of the Avon Volunteer Fire Department but we are going to face some scrutiny much of the same way the questions that we ask you we are going to hear from taxpayers. Mr. Shillington responded that he understands the financial piece of it but again coming at from the perspective of it is tough to put a price on a really well-trained
firefighter; you have an incident that happens with a firefighter or something where they cannot do what they are supposed to do for one of the Town residents, $350,000 at that point truly is a drop in the bucket. Mrs. Samul commented on having the people trained versus having the people prepared to respond to the emergency by purchasing either equipment or a timeshare with the facility in Farmington. Mr. Shillington responded from his perspective he is asking for both because without the required training and being as trained as they truly need to be and most of them because they go outside the Town of Avon you do not want to put someone on a fire truck regardless of the age whether or not they are trained to be on it. Mr. Sedlak commented that you cannot put a price on public safety. Mr. Shillington added that they do take people offline because they do not go out of town to train because of their schedules.
A member of the audience questioned what the white house is right across from the entrance to the high school. Mr. Shillington responded it is the old community pool club. The member of the audience commented that she thought that was a firefighter training facility. Mr. Shillington responded that they do utilize that right now as a somewhat training facility but cannot do much with it because of the structural issues of that facility but they are very limited in what we can do; they have an approximate year left with that facility. He added that other towns have used it as well. He noted that they do not use it for live burns. Chairman Zacchio commented that the structure is an old community pool and was donated to the Avon Volunteer Fire Department and using it up until it needs to be
torn down. The member of the audience questioned if one day we could build a larger fire department. Chairman Zacchio responded that it is not that big of a piece of property. Chief Trick added that they looked into it; there are wetlands issues, etc.
Chief Trick reported on the Deercliff and Old Bluff Vermillion cisterns; they are water supply issues that have been ongoing and pushed back because of other priorities. He added that these are areas of the Town that have historically have had very little or no water in them. He noted that they have done improvements from time to time; through efforts of the Fire Marshal’s office and Planning and Zoning office, they have ensured some of the newer areas either have paid for and extended water lines and/or have installed cisterns. He noted that one of the issues, as a member of the Recreation and Park Committee, is solving the refilling issues of Fisher Meadow; right now we cannot draft out of that, they have a stand pipe there that has been dry since the middle of summer and approximately three feet
above water before the last storm. Mr. Evans questioned where they primarily draw from for their water supply. Chief Trick responded anywhere there is water; they have chopped through ice in a swimming pool and drawn off of it. Mr. Shillington added that they will call for other towns’ tankers especially in areas like this. Chief Trick noted that progress has been made in mutual aid and they have now established a tanker task force, used it on many occasions and it is very successful.
Mr. Shillington reported on radio system upgrades including current radio and pager coverage issues; as volunteers they are dispatched out by pagers and radios and there are places within Town where transmission is very difficult for a call that has come through. Chairman Zacchio commented that we have a state of the art dispatch system at the Police Department with all kinds of bandwidth; he asked the Town Manager if we can help. Mr. Shillington commented that there are ways to work together to improve that. Mr. DiPace commented that he met recently with the Police Captain and their administrative staff and the Board of Education to try to create a unified communications committee and to design a unified system using the same vendor.
Mr. Shillington reported on SCBA and come 2019 through 2021 it is going to be required that they replace 183 of their SCBA cylinders during that period of time as they only have a life span of so much; the more they use them that life span goes down. He noted an equipment cost of $183,000, today’s dollars, to do the full replacement between that time period and that is an OSHA requirement. He added that by that time the cost might be near $250,000. Chairman Zacchio commented that we do not even know what the technology will be then but knowing that we will probably have to replace something. He noted that some of the long-term items that we have been hearing about we have been talking about maybe setting up small capital reserves and funding them over time and start to think a little bit more
around capital budgeting for items like this. Mr. Shillington commented that they try to, along with the other towns that are around them, to make sure their equipment is somewhat similar from a mutual aid perspective. He added that it could be cost efficient to purchase some new equipment along with other departments at a group discount. Mr. May asked if the cylinders cost approximately $1,000 each. Mr. Shillington responded that just the cylinder itself is approximately $800-$1,000; the whole apparatus is approximately $2,300. Mr. May questioned if they could be six or seven of them per year then you would not have them failing at the same time. Chairman Zacchio responded that we could but the problem is they are still certified so they do not need to be replaced yet. Mr. Shillington commented that when they purchased them they lined them up so that within that number of years they would know how many are going to fall short of its time. Chairman Zacchio commented that
you lose your accrual rate on the ones that you have already purchased. Mrs. Samul commented that by setting money aside each year we are in effect doing what Mr. May is suggesting also because you reserve for it over a period of time.
Mr. Evans questioned if there is a point in time where we look at the capital expenditures that are necessary for this Town and realize that if the current pace that our budgets are being approved that we cannot afford this, in particular the Fire Department requests for these trucks and the current status that their Board has made, the road paving program that we are not moving forward quickly enough in which to meet current safety conditions of our roads, and should we start talking about whether a bond request as a one-time thing is an appropriate way to handle the burden that capital requests are placing on our Town’s budget, particularly at a time where we may never see borrowing costs at this level for a long time. He questioned that at the end of all of our capital budget presentations should we look at
all of our capital needs over some reasonable period of time and suggest and have a serious conversation about whether a borrowing request is an appropriate way to handle these needs. He added that he is generally against that; the idea of borrowing for things that you do not traditionally borrow for, the traditional approach is bonding for a new school building or renovated library. He questioned why our roads should not be considered something long-term as well; fire apparatus has useful lives much longer than a police vehicle. Mr. Evans commented that we recently went to bond the library for $7.1 million and he asked the Town Manager what the debt service is on that. The Town Manager responded that it is a 16-year loan but has not seen the amortization schedule yet, but perhaps a couple hundred thousand dollars per year. Mr. Evans commented that if we were to consider a bond issue of something much less than that to meet some of our needs the debt
service payment obligations would be very minimal, particularly where if you look at the debt schedule we are starting to retire some debt again in FY 2014/2015 and we are never going to feel that from an operating budget perspective and at the same time in one big chunk we can take on some of the more significant, compelling capital needs of the Town. He noted that they should have a point where they talk about it. Chairman Zacchio commented that we can definitely put an agenda item in the future to talk about it but be careful that you have a bond curve, you have debt service that is specific to your operating budget in terms of how much pressure it puts on it, and there are other capital budgets. He thinks that the conversation becomes one that if you were to package together items like roads or roofing projects or fire apparatus it is now in a priority against items that are already set within the debt service in anticipation of when you start to drop off on
some of the interest payments that you are picking up these long-term projects; the second you introduce a new item into there, given no capacity, something has to give. He added that at some level as this Board, current or future, struggles with operating budget and CIP budgets and what we can get done and not get done in terms of road paving or building requests or apparatus and so on it will become the same exercise of prioritization that we do today. He noted that fundamentally you do not want to borrow for those kinds of short-term projects, have never done that as a Town, and would take a lot of discussion amongst this Board as well as the Board of Finance and maybe even the Board of Education and talk about what does that mean and how do we want to look at that because it becomes a slippery slope and you need to be careful about that too. He commented that he was not sure how the rating agencies typically look at that from a bond rating perspective which is
why we get the good rates that we get; it is because we are disciplined enough to not do things like that. He added that Mr. Evan’s point is a good one in that at some point you hit a tipping point to say that we cannot physically keep up with the amount of CIP that we are getting approved each year and keep up with the demands of the Town and an infrastructure that is on a decline. Mr. Evans added that if you are looking at a fire apparatus that we would consider in maybe four years from now, how much more will that apparatus be as a cost to the Town based upon the difference in the borrowing cost that we can lock in today? A member of the audience commented that at some point our Town has some liability, if there is a road hazard that we let go for awhile and it causes some terrible crash; how far do we let things slip before we end up paying the big bucks for a liability. Chairman Zacchio responded that there are liability policies and certainly we
have roads that could improve but we do have a master plan road study where we still have a 70% road rating which is good compared to most towns. The member of the audience commented that over in Secret Lake, the roads are bad, the fire engines do not work, and they cannot get up the hills. Mr. Evans added that to the Chairman’s point we would rather be paving roads than rebuilding roads. Mrs. Samul commented that the discussion would be a good one when you are specifically talking about roads; part of our issue with our roads right now is that we went through a tremendous building and therefore the turnover of an excess lineage of road in the late 80s is now approximately twenty-five years old and once we work through that bulge and what we have been doing is spreading that bulge out over a number of years we would then be in a more level plain. She added that if we do not use the self discipline of working through that bulge we are going to have them
bulge again and again; the roads are something that she would like to really think hard about in general about borrowing when we are setting up a sinking fund in effect for the apparatus. She commented that she is more in favor of a sinking fund and wonder if this type of a discussion which she agree would be beneficial to have should be done jointly with the Board of Finance. Mr. Pena agreed that Council should have the discussion; he is not in favor of more debt but at the same time if it gives us a head start on roads or apparatus. Chairman Zacchio informed the Town Manager that they will talk about when to add this item to the agenda and include the Board of Finance. Mr. Evans commented that he would like to consider having further conversation themselves first, see if we are comfortable with it; he is not sure based already on some of the good comments here that he is going to be in favor of it. Chairman Zacchio commented that it is a total
fundamental change in policy and the way that we have handled finances; it is a big decision and something that we have to think about in terms of what are the pros and cons. He added that obviously it needs to be inclusive of the Board of Finance because they are part of the governing structure that looks at how we structure our financing over time. He commented that it is not a bad discussion to have by any means. He noted that there was an e-mail from a gentleman tonight who attached an article from a California city that went bankrupt who was once flourishing and looked a lot like Avon and the gentleman asked what we are doing to make sure this does not happen here. He added that the Town Manager’s response to the gentleman was exactly what we are talking about because we do not bond as we have a disciplined approach. Mr. Evans commented that he wants to go through the exercise and if we arrive at the conclusion that if it does not make sense
and not a fiscally responsible decision then maybe it ends right here. Mr. Pena added that after the discussion it may appear that we do not want to go in that direction. Mr. Evans asked if there is anyone that can tell us more about it than we already know, perhaps what other municipalities have done this and what have they done it for. The Town Manager responded that there is some pretty simple math you can look at, in some ways it is now or later, if you are going to pay it out over time then you are going to be paying debt service, issuance costs, and probably locking those into your budget taking away flexibility for fifteen to twenty years whereas on the other hand if you buy it by putting money aside in capital outlay aside from the subjectivity of the need looking at it on the front end you are saving on the discount rate, etc. so part of what weighs in is how much do you need it, what is at stake, what is the subjectivity, and the math runs
out.
VII. NEW BUSINESS
VIII. TOWN MANAGER’S REPORT/MISCELLANEOUS
IX. EXECUTIVE SESSION: None
XI. ADJOURN
The meeting was adjourned at 8:50 p.m.
Attest:
Caroline B. LaMonica
Clerk
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