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Town Council Minutes 01/29/2004
 AVON TOWN COUNCIL
SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
JANUARY 29, 2004


CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Selectmen’s Chamber by Chairman Hines.  Those Present:  Town Council – Mrs. Hornaday, Messrs: Carlson, Shea and Woodford.  Board of Finance -  Chairman Harrison, Messrs: Gugliotti, Hooper, McGuff, Monts, Speich and Zacchio.  Board of Education – Chairwoman Roell, Mrs. Henneberry, Mrs. Mayer, Messrs: Eagan, Evans, McNeill, Notestine and Shopis. Town Attorney Dwight Johnson, the Town Manager and Town Clerk.       

OLD BUSINESS
03/04/09        FY04/05 Budget Process: Legal Overview, Dwight Johnson Town Attorney
Chairman Hines reported the meeting tonight is basically a work session of the three boards, Board of Finance, Board of Education and Town Council for two matters.  Originally it was set up in order to hear from the Board of Education about their Avon High School facilities, on what they intend to do and what they may want to ask the Town Council. This was considered a good time to have our Town Attorney, Dwight Johnson, give his idea of the budgetary powers and duties of the Board of Education and the Board of Finance in the Town of Avon in response to a memo from the previous Chairman of the Board of Education back in the September 11, 2003.  We will discuss that for the first half hour, then continue on the high school study, which is basically a presentation from the Board of Education.  If there are any audience questions, please wait until the end of this discussion.  

The Town Attorney reported he was asked to provide a memorandum, and tonight’s brief comments, concerning the relative powers of the Board of Education and the Board of Finance, during the budgeting process and to a lesser extent to talk about the Town Council’s role as well.  The starting point for analysis like this, are the statutes of the State of Connecticut, they outline the powers and the duties of the two boards.  Because the Statutes are not as clear as we would like them to be, the Courts have frequently found themselves forced to try to draw the  lines and to resolve disputes when the Board of Education and the Board of Finance when duties seem to come into conflict with each other.  There are lots of court cases, including Supreme Court Cases, that are relatively many more than what you would see for a typical statutory scheme.  But even those cases do not entirely resolve in the way that we can always predict what they will do next.  

Briefly, the Board of Education is charged by State Law, and this charge has been underlined by the Supreme Court in its decisions, with providing (reading from the statute) good public elementary and secondary schools.  Now the clear indication of that is the Board of Education must have adequate  funding to do that.  The Board of Finance is charged also by Statute, with recommending a budget to Town that “takes into consideration not only the educational needs of the town, but also the town’s financial condition, the town’s financial resources and the other demands on the town’s revenues such as police, highways and things like that.  The practical effect of this is that the Board of Finance, which as everyone in this room knows, when it receives a proposed budget from the Board of Education does have the ability to cut that budget, to reduce the budget, having considered the educational needs of the town and the other requirements for running the town, as well as the available finances for the town.  But the Board of Finance cannot cut the Board of Education proposed budget to the point where it eliminates or precludes the Board of Education from providing a good education as required by statute.  In addition, the Board of Finance in most cases is precluded during the budget review process from deleting programs that the Board of Education has decided are important to meet the needs of the students, as long as those programs are within the statutory powers of the Board of Education.  After a budget has been adopted and funds allocated to the Board of Education, the Board of Education is generally free to move monies from one line item in its budget to another item that it decides in its judgement that it is an appropriate thing to do.  

What this general description means with respect to asking for meetings, or requiring meetings among the three bodies, as we are tonight, or imposing caps or suggestive caps on budgetary items for submission, by the Town towards the Board of Education, first of all we can all understand the Board of Finance or any other board has the right to request another board or a council to meet with them, but it cannot force anyone to meet with them.  We struggled a little with the question whether the Board of Finance could in fact require a meeting of the three boards, again the Statutes are not a lot of help, and the court cases are not a lot of help.  But when you look at the Statutes, and cases, and also take into account the Town Charter, our conclusion was that probably the Board of Finance cannot require a three board meeting, as part of the budgetary process.  The Board of Finance might be able to if either the charter were amended, for in accordance with or adopted to that effect, but even that is not entirely clear.  With respect to the more important issue though, of whether or not the Board of Finance can provide information to the Board of Education or the Town Council or required at the start of the budget process, we see no problem in the Board of Finance doing that, as the Board of Finance is charged with providing a budget, or recommending a budget to the Town that reflects the financial realities of the town as well as the needs of the Board of Education and other town departments. We see no reason why the Board of Finance could not in advance of the start of this process provide its judgement to the other bodies, of what it thinks might be appropriate under the circumstances.  We concluded however that the Board of Finance cannot impose in advance the mandatory cap, in other words the Board of Finance can suggest this year that it prefer the budgets submitted to it not be higher than 5.5%, reflecting its judgement as to what the financial condition of the Town and with what its finances are.  We see no problem with that, but if it were to say, especially to the Board of Education, that they must submit a draft budget that does not exceed 5.5%, we think that would be cutting into the duties and the responsibilities of the Board of Education.  The Board of Education has to, under State law, make a judgement as to what it thinks is necessary to provide good public schools to the residents of the town.  

Chairman Hines questioned whether there are any questions for the Town Attorney.  Board of Education Chairman, Peggy Roell, questioned whether there are any cases that quantify a good public education increase?  The Town Attorney reported we checked into whether there were any cases where a Connecticut Court said ‘if you cut your revenue below a certain amount, you cannot provide a good education’.  They do not get into that nor define what a good education is – so a short answer is no.   Chairman Roell questioned with the financial resources of the Town, is there any willingness to factor into that, where the Town might have money in surplus, if people do not want to be taxed, how does that fit into other financial resources?  The Town Attorney reported again, there is not anything that defines that, and he will go out on the limb a little bit and say that, if a court were to address this issue, it would probably take into account the fact that some towns have more available financial resources than others.  On the other hand, if the test is merely that the Board of Education must provide a good education to its students, he suspects that if it is important for all of the people to provide a good education it will be with substantially lesser monies than a relatively wealthy town like Avon does.  So on the one hand you might expect the obligation to be higher for Avon, on the other hand you might say well it is, but we have not seen any cases.   

Mr. McGuff questioned whether there are any Supreme Court decisions that address the issue the Board of Finance faces in terms of balancing the needs of the town as a whole, any guidance for us on that kind of subject.  The Town Attorney reported we have not seen any in the courts, they have inclusive language in a supreme court case, perhaps 30 years ago, that used the phrase ‘taking into consideration those other factors’, then in every case subsequent to that simply quotes that language.  

Chairman Hines questioned whether for their analysis they were looking simply at the court cases for the State of Connecticut.  The Town Attorney reported yes, because we do have specific statutes in Connecticut which talk about the relative powers of the Board of Education and the Board of Finance, we also had the Avon Charter, so it would not be helpful to go outside to other states.  

Mr. McNeill reported obviously in Avon, as in most other towns, it is the voters through a referendum that have the final say.  Is there anything, say if the voters approve a budget that reduces the request of the Town Council and the Board of Education by more than they are comfortable with, can you do anything to the voters about that, or is there word final on that?  The Town Attorney reported those are among the cases that we looked for, but did not find.  He would have to believe that if the voters were to pass a budget which provides revenues which are grossly inadequate for providing a good school system, the courts might go back and actually take control of that budget.  He has never seen it in context to the school budget, he has seen it in other areas of the law.  

Mr. Eagan questioned what the Avon Charter says about a failed referendum or a multiple of failed referenda.  He noticed in some towns they have had ten, eleven or twelve failed referenda and it keeps coming back. to the voters.  Does the Avon Charter have anything to address that issue?  The Town Attorney reported that is another tricky thing we looked at a year or two ago, the answer is that his conclusion is that at some point the Council takes over and puts in place a budget, even without a final approval of the voters, after the several referenda all fail.  Chairman Hines reported it could be higher or lower than what failed at the referenda, but we have a limit of three referenda.  One of the regional school districts have been going on for 10 referenda.  

Mr. McNeill questioned who has the standard that says you are not meeting the tests of a good education.  The Town Attorney reported that it could be a citizen or a member of the Board of Education.

Mr. Notestine reported you spoke about the relationship between the Board of Finance and the Board of Education.  Talk about the relationship about the Town Council and the Board of Education in matters that relate to fiscal issues, such as contracts, budget, budget review.  Is there anything in the charter that speaks to it. He questioned whether the Town Council would have the authority within the Town Charter to speak to issues related to the Board of Education budget.  The Town Attorney reported primarily what the Town Council can do is that they cannot change the recommendations of the Board of Education, it can comment.  Chairman Hines reported that is correct, and in the past few years we did not feel that we were in any position to comment on it in any detail, because we have not had the chance to look at it.  There is so much information in it that the Board of Education members have to go through, then they send it to the Town.  It would take a tremendous effort by us to go into it.  If it were coming in with a 20% increase, we could make a comment to the Board of Finance that we think that is very high and to look at it very closely or something of that type, but not beyond that.  Labor contracts are presented to us by the Town Manager from the Board of Education, and we can make comments on them, but that is where it would stand.  The Town Manager reported in the past the labor contracts have usually been considered in the context of the Board of Education’s budget, and there have been a couple of times during his tenure where the Town Council felt that they needed to make a comment or a recommendation, or express a concern or an opinion to the Board of Finance concerning something about the Board of Education’s budget.  It has been relatively few times and far between when the Council has decided to get involved with that.  There is a provision as well in the Statute’s and the Town Clerk can speak on that, as a contract there is a 30 day window of time where the Town Council can take a teacher’s contract and submit it to the community for a vote at a Town Meeting.  The Town Clerk reported we did it once probably twenty years ago.  Chairman Hines reported that is when they unionized.                                            

Mr. Shopis questioned whether there is any time that the Town Council ends up taking control of the Board of Education budget for some of those things such as request of capital expenditures, which would effect our ability to provide and keep a good standard of education.  The Town Attorney reported the Town Council does have certain roles with respect to the capital budgets, if you are asking whether they could prevent you from meeting your statutory obligation – in that regard the Town Council would be in a similar position as the Board of Finance, to according to the Statute, what the Supreme Court has said, it is the responsibility of the Town Council to provide the budget.  That is by the Statute and the Supreme Court has upheld the State Constitution, that underlines the statutory responsibility.  

Mr. Gugliotti reported in reflecting on the January 14th letter from the Board of Finance to the Town Council and the Board of Education, is there anything in that letter that trips over the position that you just expressed, is there anything in that letter that violates the position that you have just explained.  The Town Attorney reported he read the letter and the letter is fine, and as he told Mr. Harrison, the key thing is that the cap is a recommendation rather than a directive.  

Chairman Hines reported the Town Attorney and staff did an excellent job of reviewing this and putting this in terms that we all understand.  Any time a new member goes on the Town Council, Board of Finance or Board of Education they should receive a copy of this, it would be very helpful.   
  
III     NEW BUSINESS
03/04-64        Review and Discussion: Avon High School Facility Needs Study; Board of
                Education  
Peggy Roell, Board of Education Chairman, reported this process actually started in the Spring of 2002, with three Board of Education members and Town Council Chairman Hines working together, for the purpose of studying the Town’s demographics and enrollment trends, identify school facility needs and improvements, and determine options and response to those needs.  The original report was updated for enrollment numbers in October 2003, and the Board of Education spent November and December meetings reviewing it, then at the December meeting a motion was unanimously approved to “Request the Town Council to approve and fund an architectural feasibility study for the purpose of constructing permanent additions and renovations to the Avon High School.”  That is why we are here tonight.  

In our presentation we are going to talk about the Town and school enrollment growth, review what was done back in 1996, many people feel that the school was completed but that was eight years ago, but we finished renovations six years ago.  We will talk about current school capacity, not only at the high school but at the other four schools, talk about the recommended facility additions and facility improvements, then briefly about other options that the committee explored.  

The Board of Education Chairman and the Superintendent of Schools gave a power point presentation, a copy of which is attached and made a part of these minutes.  

William Hooper raised the question as to the population which was to go to 20,000 and 21,000, what is the state saying the Town’s population is going to be for these 1,263 children?  The Superintendent reported we do not have that kind of information.  He further questioned then how can you come up with numbers like this without knowing what the total population is going to be.  Chairman Hines reported they take a lot under consideration but they have never come up with the number on total population for the Town.  

Mark Zacchio reported before we go ahead and say that this is our maximum, if this means we are at 17,000 now, if this means that we are only going to be at 18,000 or 19,000 total Town population, what are we going to do when we hit 22,000.  So we may want to consider that or work with the Town Planner before we say this is our plan, we may have room to grow but then he gets caught up in the logic of how they got that the first time, and where we are now at 100% saying that is what it is going to be.  The Superintendent of Schools reported he does not have an easy answer for you.  The Town back in 1995 hired at that time and probably still is one of the best private analysts, that was Chung, and he was off the mark.  There was a question as to the Department of Education’s projections, and yet if you look at the margin of error for the Department of Education over the last seven years, their margin of error is just under 2%, which is pretty good.  He has had a lot more confidence in the Department of Education and the way they look at the data, both in town and out of town migration for our districts.  He does not know what our future will be, he can only tell you that as we look ahead to a building project, the Department of Education is going to say to us – what is the ten year projection for enrollment?  Because they do not have any confidence in any enrollment data after that, so we can only build to what those numbers are, that is the maximum, we cannot go beyond that point.  We have some grace period, we can go for example, look at the next two years and if it goes up slightly we can use that figure but only during that period of design and development.  They are going to ask us what is the maximum ten year enrollment projection and where did you get the data from.  That is the planning guide we have to use, and as awkward and as unbelievable as it may seem that is what we have to use.  

Mr. Hooper questioned when they look at those numbers do they consider the geographical size of Avon and what is left to be developed and do we consider then any acquisitions that we might have in mind for open space and how that factors into it.  The Superintendent of Schools reported they do not take that into consideration, they do not take into consideration the buildable land, they take into consideration the amount of growth that has been taking place, the number of new building permits and housing sales, so they know the trends and they try to anticipate them, but they cannot crystal ball out 20 years.  

The Board of Education Chairman reported we have been working with the Town Planner, on a program that his group is developing, looking at houses and putting in school data, as to how many children are in each of the houses and hopefully can do some extrapulations of new houses have x number of children, and so many new houses, so that may be a way that we can see how close these numbers are.  The State Board of Education is not going to care about those numbers, but that might give us some more comfort.  

Mr. Gugliotti reported when the Thompson Brook School was designed and built there was some forethought to the possibility of having to add on there, and there was discussion about some of the corners of the building where theoretically you could add on a couple of classrooms two floors each. Which is a good future aspect to that building that lends itself to that.  With the high school is there a logical place where 8 or so classrooms would go, do we know where there is a place where they will fit.  In the report you talk about adding everything including adding a second floor over the administrative wing, but is there a space, but you would lose parking, but is it adjacent to the new pod that was built.  

The Superintendent of Schools reported that is why we are asking the Town Council to support the feasibility study.  We need to ask that question, that is the most fundamental question we have to ask.  For the number of students we see by 2013, and the space we identify as what we need, but can the space and the site accommodate that additional 30,000 square feet is a real question.  Only an architect could help us figure that out.  Mr. Gugliotti reported there is a practical matter too, we are sort of  up against the wall in that sense, because we cannot hardly begin to think or imagine that we are going to have to build a new high school.  

Mr. Carlson reported he was asked recently that when we built Thompson Brook School, there was discussion about that being a swing school, which gave us the flexibility of moving 5th grade up or down, or perhaps 7th grade up or down.  He saw the comment about the Middle School not being able to expand out as an issue.  He questioned whether as part of the feasibility study, look at whether we are going to grade down all the way through the school system.  

The Superintendent of Schools reported yes, the Board looked at the alternative of moving the 9th grade to the Middle School, and clearly we could add moving east out of the building on the main part of the building where the modular classrooms were located several years ago.  We clearly could build space to accommodate classrooms, there is enough space to accommodate them, but the real question in that building is can the rest of the building accommodate an additional 300 students.  The library is just the right size for 600 students, the cafeteria can now with six lunch ways accommodate those children.  So the core facilities are really the issue in that building.  The additional art space, additional tech space, all of those spaces that are going to be needed will only make the design of that building a little more complicated, but it is an option for the future.  He sees that building as our safety valve, for help that goes beyond the ten year forecast if necessary.  The other issue from an educators point of view, we have real concerns about the old junior high school concept, with grades 7 through 9, where you have youngsters who are not quite there yet, dealing with us who think that they are ready, with those who are 9th graders.  What we have tried to do in our k-8 schools is maintain a little more nurturing environment, tone it down and let a little more time for them to grow, and including 9th grade might change this, it would have a different component but it is an option.  

Mr. Carlson reported a question was asked of him, if you move 9th grade there, would you look at having an 8,9, then a 7,6,5 back into the two elementary schools.  The Superintendent of Schools reported the two elementary schools cannot accommodate the added grades.   

Mr. Shea questioned whether the State reimbursement were 21.6% now.  Mr. Franzi, School Finance Director, reported that is the average.  Mr. Shea questioned whether they had given them any projection out as to what it would be.  Mr. Franzi reported it is still at 27%, they have not changed it, based on legislation, but that could change at any time.  The Town Manager reported he spoke with State Representative Farr specifically this morning about the time table when we would have to get in to ensure that we got it, and he believes this schedule should be fine, unless they come up with something new in terms of the budgeting.  At a meeting with the Governor in attendance, and they do not plan to change the funding method, the bonding method or anything else, so we have pretty much of a status quo situation at least at this point going forward.  The School Finance Director reported the only piece of legislation that has changed and it really does not effect Avon, as we do operate this way.  We cannot proceed unless we have the funding to do so, that is the Town Meeting, Town Referendum must approve the funding of the project before it the State will say we can proceed with the work.  Although they will accept the application, and even review designs but they will not say go ahead, until the Town says yes.  

Mr. Shea questioned whether that feasibility study can incorporate also some preliminary numbers on the addition and renovation of Avon Middle School.  Mr. Franzi reported it could if you wish to do so.  Mr. Shea reported it would help as we forecast out, to have an understanding as to what those numbers are today.  If you have hired the Architect and he is going to do that kind of work and you are projecting out as far as we are, you are going to get hit with that number eventually.  The Superintendent reported it may be a question that our towns people may ask us, and it may be a necessary step to find that we do not have site space for 30,000 square feet at the high school facility.  

Chairman Hines questioned whether Mr. Shea is saying that if we cannot get that square footage at the high school, that we look at maybe adding some to the Middle School.  Mr. Shea reported yes and no, we need the flexibility to understand the expansion of both schools and what it is going to cost.  The Board of Education Chairman reported that would bring the numbers out to 2014 or more.  Chairman Hines reported we should do that for all of the schools.  Mr. Shea reported he would like to see the feasibility study extended to incorporate what the Middle School is going to do.  Chairman Hines reported we would have to put more money into it, as the $25,000 is extremely light.  Mr. Shea reported whatever professional you hire, would be here presently doing the work and working with the numbers that we have, and for us to guess what that number is going to be or what that building can and cannot do is pretty much a variable.  Chairman Hines reported it is almost two different studies and we would need two different architects.  Mr. Shea reported if you run into any obstacles with the feasibility study of the high school, you are going to have to go back and you are going to have to look at the Middle School, so he looks at it as a way to save time and also to have some idea as we forecast out what we can and cannot afford, from a budgeting standpoint as far as debt capacity goes.  It is going to be critical to the discussion.  

Mr. Woodford reported with the gymnasium you are talking about an additional one, is it added onto the present one?  The Superintendent of Schools reported that is a good question, and we do not know where it would be located there, but maybe the Town might consider an alternate facility.  Perhaps a field house that existed in current space that can be used by the Town, with indoor track, and complete recreation facility for the Town, used by the high school which satisfies multi needs in the community not just high school needs.  If you ask if that is in the back of his thinking yes, as an alternative to not finding the space on the current site to accommodate the size of the gymnasium.  As you recall the original plan back in 1996, did include an additional gymnasium on that site, but it did not include more classroom space that we are talking about now.  Chairman Hines reported one of the things that we may want if we are going to expand this study, is to look at the possibility of including the school administration buildings in with it.  If we are tight on space that may be eliminated but we may want to look at the possibility of moving all of the Superintendents offices on to that site.  One of the reasons being that we are looking at the Towpath property in general, if it would be more attractive to do something with it on a total basis, we have to think about that.  

The Board of Education Chairman reported one of the things that she was talking about with the Recreation Director in general terms we were talking about the land on Thompson Road, where we could do a gymnasium field house type of facility there, and build some offices that might include the Recreation Department and the Board of Education Administration, and getting a facility that the community could fill all day long with programs for seniors and for younger children, high school children and other people could use it in the evening.  Mr. Shea reported with the feasibility study, you could be talking about $25,000 or $50,000 or whatever the amount is it is, but that it has to encompass all of this, so that we have options and we can talk about it.  We have a real site problem at the high school, and he does not see it being an easy discussion.  Mr. Carlson reported with regard to this, in some you are almost back to the feasibility study done in the mid 80’s that laid out for all of the projects, and a pretty good skeleton for us to work from.  But to do just one it might be short sighted, if you get two separate people the cost would probably be twice as much, with one person it may be 75% more.  Mr. Shea reported what it would be is more of a master plan, on a feasibility study basis.  What we have learned here today is the high school has the most pressing need, but as you do your budgeting, as you forecast your budget, the discussion is going to expand.  The Superintendent of Schools reported his only concern with the expanded master plan approach, the need that exists, it is not going to go away, and he would hope that that plan and that focus will not be dragged out to such that it prevented us if it were feasible to build onto the high school, that the plan could continue on a global basis but the process of at least addressing some of the immediate needs of the high school, mainly classroom space be taken care of.

Chairman Hines reported this is almost a case where if we brought in an architect and he just looked at just the high school, and he found out that yes we can build on the size needed on that parcel, with or without the administrative, that changes things too.  If he comes in and says no, we cannot, we can only get 2/3rds of it, then maybe we should expand at that time, that can be part of the discussion, and we might get a better rate if we did that.  Mr. Shea reported by no means did his suggestion insinuate that the high school was not a priority.  

The Superintendent of School reported he is always available to the Council if they want to discuss this based on the report, he can address those questions.  Mr. Shea reported the issue at hand is whether we want to do a feasibility study and what will that RFP incorporate.  Chairman Hines reported that is correct which is why we would want time to look at the information and discuss it further.  Mrs. Hornaday reported she would like to know the names of the other people that were on their committee.  The Board of Education Chairman reported it was Mrs. Friedman, Mr. McNeill, Mrs. Roell, Town Council Chairman Hines, Superintendent of Schools and High School Principal Sparks.
                       
Mr. Hooper questioned if you were to put the Board of Education buildings over there, or have this be a recreational facility for the gymnasium, would you have any idea on the reimbursement on that.  The Superintendent of School reported if we identified it for school use, we would be entitled to, even though it is on a different location, to be reimbursed fully.  Mr. Hooper questioned what about the Board of Education administration taking space there.  The Superintendent reported yes, but we would have to demonstrate that we would be using the facility, but the  administrative building would not be covered, not even if it were connected to the high school.

Mr. Shea reported would you have trouble with that, from a transportation standpoint of trying to get the children transported, he can see it for a game, but for the practicality of practice and use of the facility? The Board of Education Chairman reported they are already being sent to Roaring Brook, Middle School and Thompson Brook for practices.  The Superintendent reported it is a way of life now for us, busing for sports is inevitable, there is no way around it.      

Mr. Hooper reported along that line, will you be expecting that study to be looking at athletic field issues, in conjunction with the school and the site, traffic flow, security and those types of items as well.  The Superintendent of Schools reported but there already is no space for an athletic facility, we have already gone through that, the space to the rear is for parking or something else.                             

Chairman Hines reported when the Committee completed its work, they made no recommendations, the recommendations are coming from the Board of Education.  What the Committee did, with tremendous support from Dr. Kisiel, Superintendent of Schools, was to provide the data, with different options.  We talked about a lot of different options, and some of those could be possible if we started construction, 6 months to a year or two we could do some of that minor work as long as it did not go on for several years.

Chairman Hines reported we had another meeting with the Board of Finance and Board of Education about a year ago, and our Financial Advisor reviewed all of his financial planning numbers, and perhaps we can do an update on that and also an idea based on the square footage, by talking with Town staff, Town Assessor and Town Planner, can give us an idea on costs, if you go back and refine some of those figures, because we had money in there for the Library as well.  The Town Manager reported we had money in there for the Library expansion, expansion of the ball fields at Fisher Meadows, also we had the M. H. Rhodes building in it.  We also would have a $300,000 appropriation for the purchase of the house next door to the Library, which the Board of Finance   and Town Council discussed the possibility of using surplus to try to keep the tax rate down during revaluation.  When you start to add these things up we begin to run into a problem, so in terms of the amount of surplus that we have, and being able to replenish it next year.  Chairman Hines reported we also have asked them to be looking for a potential site for a firehouse, which could be an extra problem.  Mrs. Hornaday questioned the status on the Town Plan of Development.  The Town Manager reported they are in the process, they are about ready to start a town-wide questionnaire aspect of it.  We anticipate probably finishing the project by early fall, then a series of public hearings after that. We also have the Recreation and Parks Committee working on a recreation/athletic master plan as well, another component here that could have some form of influence with the last discussion of the gymnasium/field house or something of that nature.  

Chairman Hines reported he would suggest to the Town Council   that we put this on our March 4, 2004 agenda for further discussion.  We will take your recommendations and begin discussing it.  

Mr. Sparks, High School Principal, reported he has some food for thought, which was just raised tonight.  When you think about where we are now as compared to going into some of the studies in 1995, that prepared to the last renovation and the incredible growth that has happened in Town, and the unknown factor of what is out there, beyond ten years.  He understands that the Board of Education has to work with what has been placed upon it by what the State will recognize as potential growth, but one of the gentlemen on the parks side said you cannot look at a second high school, but as far as a different location for a high school that might be something that would be at least thought about at this point, it would be 15 to 17 years down the road if the school winds up being a school of 1,600 – what is the option there?   Chairman Hines questioned how large a high school can go and be reasonably efficient.   The Superintendent of Schools reported the State recognizes 1,000 students to 1,200, but beyond that point they would be out of efficiency, 800 is getting there but striving for that number is hard.  Mr. Sparks reported he brings that up because there is so much that has been spent, and he knows that there has been some regrets about whether or not we should have bought some other properties or something.
We should just keep our eyes open and get the site for it that we might need 15 to 20 years from now.  Chairman Hines questioned how much acreage you would need for that type of school.  Mr. Sparks reported he would not know what the acreage would be, he is just looking at the high school, and where would you put that without crunching your parking, and almost any function that you have, such as graduation, orientation and programs like that, where people come to participate.  We already have had to bus people from the Middle School, or have them walk up from the Baptist Church.  As we continue expanding that is another team or outdoor activity that has to go elsewhere by bus, and after 15 years of bussing that is a cost that might be offset by another site.  Chairman Hines questioned how big the Huckleberry Hill properties are although they are not adjacent.  The Town Manager reported the Town Land is more than sufficient, one is 216 acres and the other is 87 acres, there is sufficient useable land there.  Mrs. Hornaday reported we would need about 40 acres for a high school with the playing fields.  Chairman Hines reported we could probably do that in the Huckleberry Hill area.    

Chairman Hines reported we will now open the meeting to the public, if there is anyone who wishes to speak.

Mrs. Merlin reported she would like to speak to Mr. Sparks suggestions.  She realizes everything that is going on and having a child at the Avon High School as well as one at the Middle School, and witnessing first had the crunch currently.  There are the costs involved in bussing because we do not have currently the adequate fields for sports, and having to bus them elsewhere, and for parking which is not adequate for students who need to drive to school for after school activities.  Something to consider in the long term is that we seem to be looking at a band aid kind of approach and perhaps we need to take the bull by the horns and see what we can do so that we could have all of these facilities on site and not spend, which she understands is the highest in the sports budget, for busses to get our children to where they need to be for practices.  That is certainly something that you should check into.

Principal Sparks reported just a correction, that is not the case it is not the highest expenditure, it is expensive because it costs dollars, but it is not as expensive when you look at all of the expenses related to athletics, it is a cost but not to that scope.  

Mrs. Merlin reported it would be great to have a high school facility where you would have everything in one campus.       

Principal Sparks reported on the other hand to build a brand new high school today, to accommodate what we project to be in ten years would be soundly defeated, and reasonably so.  Simsbury faced the same issue, and it has slightly more athletic space but just the same issues around parking and their community struggled with this, and we are talking numbers approaching 1,600 to 1,800.  Perhaps decision makers in the future will have to grapple with this, but right now he does not see this as a band aid approach, he sees it as a need to have to respond quickly to an immediate need that we have.  What is being added on is not excess space, we are trying to improve the efficiency of the space requested, except for the gymnasium that is additional space, but other than that the rest is pretty basic.  It is very equivalent to what occurred in Farmington High School, the day they opened their new renovated facility they were over their designed capacity, then did exactly what has been proposed here, they immediately put a plan together to add on space that is currently being finished on their site.  

A question was asked with regard to space that is available, did you happen to mention that you are looking for another fire house site, and is that because you need another site in the community, or a larger facility?  

Chairman Hines reported one of the sites that is probably not adequate is in an area that is not the most desirable, which is in the Secret Lake area, it is a private community with speed bumps, and we are limited as to what size fire truck we can put there.  In the long term the Fire Department thinks they need a new facility, they even want to combine that with training aspects and probably in the area needed most on the western side of Town.  We decided to start looking for that site.  There is no timing on when we do the construction, it is just the idea that if we wanted to get the land maybe we should start looking as we would have to look when there are opportunities, and we have asked the Town Manager to keep this in mind.  

The question was asked as to whether the fire house land could be used to expand the school.  Principal Sparks reported that is a very small plot of land.    

A member of the audience reported the schedule for the Board of Education is quite heavy for February, and the schedule for the building committee is incredibly ambitious when you are talking about a building project when it will go on for another year or two for more at least before we get a school.  Chairman Hines reported we are going to put the project on the agenda for February but we are not going to do any detailed discussion or make final decisions, as one of our members will not be here for that meeting.  We will then decide whether we are going to schedule a special meeting or we go to our first meeting in March.  One month is not going to change something of this size, this committee has been studying this for two years, fortunately by having gone that long they have better numbers on the real school population and better projections than if we had made the decision a year ago.

IV      OTHER BUSINESS – None

ADJOURNMENT
The special meeting was adjourned at 8:30 p.m.

Attest:   


Caroline B. LaMonica
Town Clerk