ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
MONDDAY FEBRUARY 25, 2008
Members Present: Ms. Marteney
Mr. Baroody
Mr. Darrow
Ms. Calarco
Mr. Tamburrino
Mr. Westlake
Member Absent: Mr. Bartolotta
Staff Present: Mr. Hicks
Mr. Selvek
APPLICATIONS
APPROVED: 150 Grant Avenue
Mr. Westlake: Good evening, this is the Zoning Board of Appeals. Tonight on the agenda:
150 Grant Avenue
Before we do that if the minutes are ok as typed, stand as written.
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2008
150 Grant Avenue C3 zoning area. Tim Hortons USA, Inc., applicant. Area variance to install two additional wall signs above the allowed two per street front.
_____________________________________________________________
Mr. Westlake: 150 Grant Avenue, please come to the podium, state your name and speak into the microphone as this is being recorded.
Mr. Durand: My name is Joe Durand, TDK Engineering also here tonight is T.J. Smith from TDK. Typically when we come in a representative from Tim Hortons would come too, Jack Crasanda from Baldwinsville, he is at another Planning Board meeting tonight, so he apologized for not being here.
I don’t know if you need an overview of what the Tim Hortons project is all about, so basically we are here to look at the signage but there is another issue that came up since we submitted and want to make sure all the cards are on the table so you know what we are applying for. The issue was raised through Brian’s office was the number of signs and basically if I can just point to this. Tim Horton’s is a 2400 square foot building with a drive thru and it is proposed to go due west of the Taco Bell facility and between there is a Walgreens. As we work through this project it is part of a master plan for the old shopping center done by Dunn & Sgromo. Lot of our work is storm water regs and
all that stuff, our work will fall under that overall master plan we are consistent with that.
Some issues have come up in the site plan review process was the signage, it was identified that we had more signs than would be allowed if we had to present that to you. In a nutshell there is a Tim Hortons façade sign on the front of the building and one on each side and there is a pylon sign out front. In addition to that there are a few smaller directional signs they are in your packages and Brian just cautioned us on the menu board and the pre-ad board for ordering as it has Tim Hortons logo on it, make sure we are clear about that and then there are some internal directional signs for drive thru, that are just that they are directional they don’t have Tim Hortons logo on it. That is really the
essence of our reason for being here for the ZBA because of the number of signs, so I guess it is an area variance.
One of things that came up as Steve was looking through it with us is that the lease limits for the project by your ordinance is 30,000 square foot minimum and we are just slightly below that, with the limits that Tim Hortons had struck with HDL Properties who are managing this facility. What we have here and I have some handouts if you need to see them up close is the original geometry the requirements of the Zoning Ordinance it had to be a minimum of 200 feet in depth and we are at 184, also we had a 30,000 square foot requirement. So we talked to HDL and they weren’t opposed to us increasing the limits of the lease to get to the 30,000 square feet but to muddy the water a little bit, they had already set us an
overall lease agreement with a shared portion of our site the parking being shared with a future tenant in the rear. So we missed the deadline for coming in with a adding on to 30,000 square foot area variance onto this and we didn’t want to miss our deadline with getting site plan approval. So we would like to focus on the sign issue, we are comfortable with what we have as long as you are, but really this area 30,000 square foot limit we can handle it however the board pleases, but we think we have got it addressed. The area in pink is the shared parking between this tenant and Tim Hortons. We also took the time to figure what the overall parking requirements were for the whole shopping center and there is more than enough parking.
One other issue that comes up that I just ran by Steve is this is a future tenant, in the original master plan they had a 16,500 square foot building, right now the way the footprints are showing it is 10,000 square feet. Shared parking with the Tim Hortons site for these 13 spaces parking spaces and to muddy the waters a little more for you, there is a pylon sign proposed out front and they are asking that Tim Hortons share that with the rear tenant. We don’t have that information for you, we don’t know who the tenant is, but we are probably going to have to come back at another time for the details of that pylon sign and we don’t even have an idea how Tim Horton’s will share the sign with another
tenant. So now that I have totally confused the heck out of everybody, we would like to focus on just the sign issue and I think we have covered everything else with the area variances for the lot size and everything. I can answer any questions you might have.
Mr. Baroody: Do you want to alter your application to include an area variance or are you saying you don’t need one with the shared parking.
Mr. Durand: We don’t need one. When we submitted for the variance we didn’t realize about the area variance for that and we were worried that we were going to get kicked back because it didn’t get noticed in the paper that way, that there was another variance issue, so the short answer is we don’t want to do any more notices, whatever the board is comfortable with. We don’ need the variance or we can have a reduced area and what would show here as this is Tim Hortons lease area and the shared use area.
Mr. Baroody: That gives you more than 30
Mr. Durand: Yes.
Mr. Westlake: Any questions form the board?
Mr. Tamburrino: The shared sign in the future, do you have overall sign height?
Mr. Durand: I really can’t answer that, I don’t know because we, it just became known to us in the last hour and we don’t know who the tenant is, we don’t know what their sign requirements are and what I just asked Steve if we could just put together another sign package and submit to the Building Department or come back before the board
Mr. Darrow: I don’t see why that would even be an issue at this point, because we have so many tenants going in and out on Grant Avenue and every time one comes in or out, if they need signs requirements they just come before us. So at that point in time when that tenant comes in and he needs a sign variance and if they do attach to your pole or they don’t attach to your pole, so be it,
Mr. Durand: We will see when they come in
Mr. Westlake: Your application is to install two additional wall signs above the allowed two per street that is what you are here for tonight.
Mr. Durand: Yes.
Mr. Baroody: Do you want to include the menu boards and order board signs so there can be no question?
Mr. Durand: Those are in our variance application package, those are in. Brain just said be specific with the logos and that is what we did.
Mr. Tamburrino: The Tim Hortons signs on the building are they illuminated?
Mr. Durand: Internally lit.
Mr. Westlake: Anyone here to speak for or against this application? Seeing none we will talk amongst ourselves.
Mr. Darrow: I think it is pretty open and shut, it is a constant problem on Grant Avenue with the limited frontage and how many actual buildings are being put into that acreage.
Mr. Tamburrino: This property is owned by John Smith, managed by HDL Properties, the variance usually given to the owner
Mr. Westlake: It goes to the property, it doesn’t go to the owner, it goes to the property itself.
Mr. Tamburrino: Ok, I got it, I understand. The 30,000 square foot, I don’t understand that.
Mr. Darrow: 30,000 square feet is the minimum area in the City to lease a patch of property, but they solved that problem by co-sharing or co-leasing part of the lot.
Mr. Tamburrino: I get it, thank you.
Mr. Westlake: Do I hear a motion?
Mr. Darrow: I would like to make a motion that we grant Tim Hortons USA Inc. of 4150 Tuller Road, Suite 236, Dublin, Ohio for property located at 150 Grant Avenue, a variance to erect two additional wall sign units at the above address and submitted in blueprint.
Mr. Baroody: I’ll second that motion.
VOTING IN FAVOR: Ms. Marteney
Mr. Baroody
Mr. Darrow
Ms. Calarco
Mr. Tamburrino
Mr. Westlake
Mr. Westlake: Application has been approved.
Mr. Durand: Thank you.
| 
