ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
MONDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2002
Members Present: Mr. Hare, Ms. Marteney, Mr. Darrow, Mr. Temple, Mr. Westlake, Mr. Gentile, Mr. Rejman
Staff Present: Ms. Hussey , Mr. LaDouce, Mr. Hicks
APPLICATIONS APPROVED: 14 Tehan Avenue, 15 Ross Street, 76 Orchard Street, 16 Capitol Street
APPLICATION DENIED: 9 Willey Street
APPLICATION TABLED: 51 S. Hunter Avenue, 202-24 Genesee Street
Mr. Rejman: Good evening, this is the Zoning Board of Appeals. This is a seven-member board; we have six members here tonight and be advised that you will need four affirmative votes for any application to pass. Tonight we have seven items: 14 Tehan Street, 51 S. Hunter Avenue, 15 Ross Street, 9 Willey Street, 202-204 Genesee Street, 76 Orchard Street, 16 Capitol Street
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14 Tehan Avenue, R-2, 10-foot front yard area variance for deck. John Allen.
Mr. Rejman: 14 Tehan Avenue, are you here? Yes, step forward. State your name for the record.
Mr. Allen: John Allen.
Mr. Rejman: Ok, John, tell us what you would like to do there.
Mr. Allen: What we have done is changed the steps to a safer approach and added a deck that encompasses about 15 feet and turned the stairs around so that it doesn’t encroach the City property. I discussed it with Jim and I need approval on it apparently.
Mr. Rejman: OK. Questions from the board. I know this was tabled from last month. Questions from the board?
Mr. Allen: I apologize for not being here last month.
Mr. Rejman: No questions? Is there anyone here wishing to speak for or against this application? I guess not, very good, we will close the public portion and discuss amongst ourselves and come to an agreement.
Mr. Allen: Ok.
Mr. Rejman: Comments, concerns? Motions? This isn’t like you people, everyone is awfully quiet. Ok, can I have a motion and a second?
Mr. Darrow: Looking for the particulars. Looking for the size of the area variance.
Mr. Rejman: Needs a 10-foot front yard variance.
Mr. Darrow: I would like to make a motion that we grant an area variance to John L. Allen of 14 Tehan Avenue of 10 foot off the front lot line.
Mr. Westlake: I second that motion.
VOTING IN FAVOR: Mr. Hare, Ms. Marteney, Mr. Darrow, Mr. Westlake, Mr. Gentile, Mr. Rejman,
ABSTAINING: Mr. Temple
Mr. Rejman: Application has been approved. Get your building permit in the morning and good luck.
Mr. Darrow: Are you sure it is 10 not 7 foot?
Mr. Rejman: Says 10 foot in mine.
Mr. Darrow: OK. Thank you.
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51 S. Hunter Avenue, LR-1, use variance for irrigation pond on premises. James Dickman.
Mr. Rejman: 51 South Hunter, are you here please?
Mr. Dickman: Yes.
Mr. Rejman: State your name for the record.
Mr. Dickman: James Dickman.
Mr. Rejman: Ok, James, what would you like to do there?
Mr. Dickman: We are here for a special use variance, as I understand it to go from R-1 to a non-use, which would be an irrigation pond.
Mr. Rejman: Looks like you have things to show us there.
Mr. Dickman: I brought an aerial map I thought you would like to see that give you a better view.
Mr. Rejman: Tell us more about the pond, the size.
Mr. Dickman: Here is a smaller map. This is our property here (points to map). This is the greenhouse now and all this back here this is what we are talking about in this field.
Mr. Temple: Can you point it out on this map.
Mr. Dickman: This are the greenhouses, nursery, outdoor growing area and the pond location is in this field here.
Basically we started about 3 years ago with the Cayuga County Soil & Water to come up and plan to reuse all of our water that we use at the greenhouse plus all the water that falls on the parking lots and things like that. This is basically the plan that they came up with. So I am here before you to get permission to put the pond on City property, my property within the City.
Mr. Rejman: Ok, so you are reclaiming all of the – expand on that a little bit, you are reclaiming some of the water that you are using is that it?
Mr. Dickman: Right and then we will actually reuse it again. That is what is going on, collect all the water, go to the pond, re-pump it back out and water the nursery and everything outdoors with the same water again, go through the same thing, go back down to the pond, just do it over and over again.
Mr. Rejman: What size pond would this be?
Mr. Dickman: It is roughly 200 x 300; the Cayuga County Soil & Water is still working on it.
Mr. Darrow: On an acre and a quarter?
Mr. Dickman: About an acre and a quarter right.
Mr. Rejman: As I see it this has to go before Zoning and before Planning is that correct?
Mr. Dickman: Correct.
Mr. Rejman: And this is your first step with us.
Mr. Dickman: Yes.
Mr. Rejman: This is unique.
Ms. Marteney: But the variance isn’t to change – it is a use variance not a change of the districting
Mr. Rejman: Just a use variance because R-1 has grown up around that over the years and got trapped in the zone. Questions?
Mr. Temple: How long have you been in continuous operation in that particular parcel, how long have you owned that parcel?
Mr. Dickman: Roughly since 1903 in our family.
Mr. Temple: Never has been used for housing?
Mr. Dickman: No.
Mr. Temple: Just agricultural purposes?
Mr. Dickman: It has been a field.
Mr. Darrow: Are you having any plans for fencing for safety purposes and how deep are you planning on having it dredged?
Mr. Dickman: Probably the center of it will be somewhere between 8 and 10 feet deep. That is the Cayuga County Soil & Water’s design for the whole system and this is one portion of it. We plan on taking our fencing which goes around the rest of the property now and expand around it.
Mr. Darrow: What type of fencing – like split rail like you have on your property?
Mr. Dickman: No, actually what we have on the rest of our property is a wire fence eight inches apart and it is about 7 feet high.
Ms. Marteney: Is the pond going to be down in the lower area closer to Archie Street?
Mr. Dickman: Yes, in the back of my applicant there is also a hand sketch from Cayuga County Soil & Water. The location of that o the big map would be in the lower left hand corner of that field.
Mr. Darrow: What is the closest this pond is going to be to any residential dwelling?
Mr. Dickman: Closest residential dwelling would be probably 200 yards away, one on Havens Avenue.
Mr. Gentile: Do you own the property just within the green square here? I am just wondering because it looks like there is another pond here, is this a pond here?
Mr. Dickman: That is by Hoopes Park, I looked at that myself and did not know what it is.
Mr. Gentile: Your line is right here?
Mr. Dickman: Actually we are kidding corner across that field.
Mr. Gentile: Over here?
Mr. Dickman: Right.
Mr. Gentile: I wondered if there was another pond.
Mr. Dickman: It appears to be on the map, I never walked over there, I don’t know.
Mr. Hare: Mr. Dickman there is a stream down through there at the other end of the field that you are talking about, is there going to be some kind of overflow going into this stream or is it going to affect this stream at all?
Mr. Dickman: There is going to be an overflow design for the pond as I understand it, it is going back into the creek that runs behind and through our property now, not that creek, water comes down from South Hunter is that the one you are speaking of?
Mr. Hare: Yes.
Mr. Dickman: The water runs north towards Hoopes Park.
Mr. Hare: So the one I am thinking of if you start on the top of that hill and work your down to the bottom of that field, there is if I remember a stream going down parallel to that
Mr. Dickman: The one that runs to the north is where the over flow would have to go.
Ms. Marteney: Does something like a SEQRA have to be done?
Mr. Rejman: I am not sure.
Mr. Darrow: Planning will do that.
Mr. Dickman: Will filled out a SEQRA for Planning.
Ms. Marteney: It certainly impact water flow to Hoopes Park and other wild life in that whole area.
Mr. Rejman: Ok, any more questions from the board at this point? Let me ask this. Is there anyone wishing to speak for or against the application? Yes, we have a few. Have a seat and we will call you back for closing statements. Gentlemen, come up. State your name for the record.
Mr. Franceshelli: Tony Franceshelli, I live at 41 S. Hunter Avenue.
Mr. Rejman: What would you like to say?
Mr. Franceshelli: Just a couple concerns about the pond. Just hearing about the size of it. You know with the mosquito population, there are several dead birds that got reported to the County up in that area. With the whole West Nile virus going on we are concerned about that. I also own a pool and we get a lot of ducks from Hoopes Park, they land on the cover, I am assuming this is going to draw more ducks, geese and everything else so I am a little concerned about that. Just hearing Mr. Dickman talk about the fence around it. There are a lot of little kids in the neighborhood and 8 inch wide wire fence I am not sure it is going to keep those kids out of there. That pond which I heard is 8 to 10 feet deep that concerns me also. It has been residential and everybody in the area
wants it to stay residential.
Mr. Rejman: OK.
Mr. Darrow: I have a question. Is this something that you are opposed to or just if proper steps and precautions are taken you would be in favor of it?
Mr. Franschelli: If it was something smaller I probably would have been in favor, but 200 by 300 is a pretty good sized pond, I am opposed to it, even with the fencing, how do you spray the pond to keep mosquitoes out I don’t know. Concerned about the spraying.
Mr. Rejman: For the record, did you give us your address?
Mr. Franschelli: 41 N. Hunter.
Mr. Rejman: Ok. Anyone else wishing to speak for or against? Yes?
Mr. Laird: Good evening, my name is Tom Laird and I live at 50 S. Hunter Avenue. My wife Lisa and our 3 kids moved to S. Hunter Avenue about 4 years ago after living 5 years in Owasco. What attracted us to the area was as most of you know this is a dead end street, this is an open field, it is very pleasant viewing wildlife, deer, foxes to wild turkeys. Most of us and a lot of the older residents on the street and surrounding streets will walk up and down our street to take a view of the deer every night at dusk. A lot of the neighborhood children are in the area. I am very concerned about the aesthetics and of course property values have to be considered and right now the way it is it is an open space there is breathing room for kids, animals, it is a very nice residential area.
Nobody from Sennett has been notified of anything. I live on S. Hunter of course right in the middle of the street is the split between Auburn and Sennett is on the other side. Just out of fairness basis and due process nobody in the Town of Sennett has heard a word one about any of this and people that live on the opposite side of S. Hunter Avenue all of us live in the Town of Sennett. None of us received notice, none of us have heard anything, seen presentation, there has been no attempt by anyone to inform us about our kids, our property values. The first I heard of this was from Mr. Franschelli he is on the Auburn side he let me know a few days ago that hey something is happening over there.
I am just concerned I have 3 younger kids and I know that there are a lot of other residents that couldn’t be here tonight that are also concerned. They asked that I ask some questions if I was able to -- aesthetics, property values, safety and traffic nuisance. Years ago this was a nice place for people to come park after hanging out, it is a popular place for kids to cut through to Havens and to Sacred Heart Church and al over the place. Whether it is trespassing or not it has to be recognized it is a venue for kids and other people who walk and cut through there. Unfortunately for the Dickmans it is a traffic area. I tell the kids to go the right way to Boy Scouts and they cut through the field, I am sure it happens with more kids than just my family. So putting a body of
water even if some protection is put in place in an area like that where it is dark and hard to monitor and there is nighttime traffic it becomes a big security, safety and liability problem. I am personally concerned about it.
I think I mentioned the wildlife, the deer, raccoons, foxes, and wild turkeys all in my backyard and front yard all the time and all through that field as well. We have some elderly people that could not make it tonight; they have to make plans to come out to something like this. They are concerned that they never heard word one about anything and really people as I understand with pond that is proposed it is down closer to the dead end side of the street, right across from my house. The people beside me and down a little bit we all live in the Town of Sennett and we are most directly impacted by this. That is a concern of ours.
Mr. Rejman: Thank you.
Mr. Darrow: Could you basically as we are going down S. Hunter, where about does your house fall so I can get an idea in relation to the pond.
Mr. Laird: Last house – second to last house on the left.
Mr. Darrow: OK.
Mr. Laird: Mr. and Mrs. Metcalf live in the last house, they were going to be here this evening, but couldn’t make it. They are the last house by the woods. We all are just a little discouraged that we just found out about this by luck of the draw.
Mr. Darrow: Thank you.
Mr. Gentile: You mentioned that you like the fact of the wildlife in the fields, wouldn’t this add to that?
Mr. Laird: A fence and a pond, no, what is going to happen, if I was a business owner and owned my own property, I would probably want to develop it so that I could operate my business, there is no doubt in that. Fences have gone up recently to protect problems from vandalism and deer coming out and eating there wires within the nursery, I don’t know if they are electrically charged or not. I have warned the kids not to go near and touch them. Fences have come up further and nobody has really said, it is not our property, and it really hasn’t gotten to be a big deal. This fence and irrigation pond where or not it would increase wildlife, we already have a ton of wildlife there, what it would do to increase it, I don’t know. But having a fence in that pristine field right
just from pure aesthetics is not good. Hopefully the wildlife will not be impacted any more. I know there is a lot of land around and I don’t know the exact property lines, those of us that first heard about it was hopeful that the pond could be put somewhere other than in the field that has been “as is” for so long and so many people have enjoyed the open space and choose to move there because of the relaxed feeling of it.
Mr. Gentile: Thank you.
Mr. Rejman: Any other questions? Thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to speak for or against? Hearing none, I will bring Mr. Dickman back. There may be a question or two from the board and closing statement.
Mr. Gentile: Have you considered any other location besides the one you are planning on putting it in?
Mr. Dickman: Basically what happened is the Cayuga County Soil & Water Conservation district went out and did some mapping and took elevations and this is their proposed spot for it that takes all of our water and gets it to one spot, obviously the best spot on the whole property. Are there other locations, probably yes. As far as our neighbors go, I mean we have provided an awful pretty field for a long time. We certainly are here to do the right thing. We can sell house lots all the way along South Hunter Avenue, and you won’t have to worry about seeing it. There are two sides to every story here.
Mr. Rejman: The pond, is there any thought to making it, what shape will the pond be in, will it have some sort of natural curvature shape to it or is it just a square – rectangle type
Mr. Dickman: Kidney shaped.
Mr. Rejman: Ok, so it blends into the
Mr. Dickman: Right
Mr. Rejman: Into the land
Mr. Dickman: Right. If anybody has seen the pond behind my house which is farther to the south that is the same sort of thing we are going to do with this.
Mr. Rejman: I think a question was brought up mosquitoes, ducks, electric fences, any comments on those?
Mr. Dickman: Mosquitoes and ducks, mosquitoes certainly take that to the DEC and Soil and Water Conservation and ask the same questions. Duck we can’t shoot because we are in the City. Fencing obviously a chain link fence I would certainly go along with anybody’s input on whatever kind of fencing.
Mr. Rejman: Your deer fence, is that electric?
Mr. Dickman: Yes it is.
Mr. Rejman: Just similar to a fence that a dairy farmer would use?
Mr. Dickman: Smooth wire and other than it is tall only about 8 inches between the strands.
Mr. Rejman: Ok. Any other questions? Yes.
Mr. Temple: I am not quite clear in terms of this map where you are going to position this. I will ask the question this way. Can you tell me how far it will be from the edge of the pond to S. Hunter.
Mr. Dickman: To S. Hunter Avenue? It has got to be at least 500 yards across there.
Mr. Temple: 500 yards from the closet point of the water?
Mr. Dickman: Yes.
Mr. Temple: Thank you.
Mr. Hare: I know one time your family owned this whole area and I am curious since this field is right in between two residential areas, are you having any plans to take this pond out and develop this prime piece of land?
Mr. Dickman: Well, I can tell you this, if we don’t put a pond there, certainly down the road it would make more sense to make it residential.
Mr. Hare: Do you look at the pond as temporary or permanent?
Mr. Dickman: Permanent. It certainly would not be something that you would go back and refill at a later time.
Mr. Darrow: Have to develop around it.
Mr. Dickman: If we ever did, yes, we have no desire to sell house lots over there.
Mr. Rejman: Yes?
Mr. Temple: Do you happen to know if your property is within an agricultural zone?
Mr. Dickman: As I understand it we are zoned R-1, as far as taxes go?
Mr. Temple: Agricultural zone something that within the Agricultural and Markets Law, provisions for properties within
Mr. Dickman: I don’t think within the City limits.
Mr. Darrow: Certainly that parcel is not.
Mr. Rejman: Ok, we will close this portion of the meeting and discuss amongst ourselves. Give the maps back please. We will keep the small map. Comments, concerns.
Mr. Darrow: Question for Corporation Counsel. Is there any where within the City limits that a pond is legal and accepted under zoning? Other than the obvious one at Hoopes Park.
Ms. Hussey: There is no provision in Zoning Code for a pond.
Mr. Darrow: Ok.
Mr. Temple: I have a question also for Corporation Counsel. Here we have a property that has been operated as an agricultural operation for a century or so and I am wondering how it is that we have any jurisdiction here even to make a decision. To me it seems to be a prior existing non-conforming use that somebody went and said we are going to make this thing R-1 even though we know it is a farm and one of the painters of the lines did their work and this prior exists any of that. How is it that we have jurisdiction in this case?
Ms. Hussey: The Code is silent as to ponds so Mr. Dickman is seeking to put a pond in but the Code being silent, he would require a use variance. It is zoned R-1 and I can’t address any zoning classifications back when they were enacted.
Mr. Darrow: I think I understand your question and I think it all falls in that that area of lot being R-1 and being in the City and not being agricultural yet his business, correct me if I am improper on this, the business is not in the City or at least that side of Archie Street isn’t so therefore that could very well be agricultural under Owasco or Sennett which ever the area is there on that side of Archie.
Mr. Rejman: Well the issue isn’t the R-1, the issue is the pond.
Mr. Darrow: Right. It is R-1, is the pond allowable in R-1, R-2, C-1, because we have no provisions for that makes no difference what it is zoned, it is whether or not we will allow it in that particular zone.
Mr. Rejman: If for some reason Austeel wanted to put a pond in they would come before us for the same reason there is no provision for ponds.
Mr. Temple: We have had ponds come up as part of plans for retention of water for storms. We have had ponds in that regard, where it is required.
Mr. Rejman: Not of this size.
Mr. Darrow: Everything for water retention ties into our storm sewer system.
Mr. Temple: I remember a location that there was one proposed out on Grant Avenue, location of the P & C when they wanted to make that into a different thing
Mr. Darrow: I think there was a creek
Mr. Temple: There was a provision in that plan for retention.
Ms. Marteney: Overflow
Mr. Temple: Something that was going to take the surface and contain it for some purpose. So we have no provision for agricultural in the City?
Mr. Rejman: That is correct.
Mr. Temple: What we have done is we have taken this property, we said arbitrarily we are not going to make anything available for agricultural in the City therefore your property is residential. I for the life of me don’t understand, this business apparently has a need for a pond for agricultural purposes and it has always been agricultural
Mr. Temple: Gary, I think you are missing the point here. Say this was zoned agricultural, he would still have to be here because there is no provision for a pond in the Code, and so that is why he is here.
Mr. Temple: I suspect that if we had one for agricultural there would be mention of ponds because ponds an agricultural
Mr. Rejman: Ok
Mr. Temple: Like ponds of manure, even that kind of ponding goes on farms.
Mr. Rejman: Ok.
Ms. Marteney: I think this is a wonderful concept conservation of water, one of the things that we don’t see and looking at the impact on their business and the cost the financial impact it will have on the business is not included in the packet at all.
Mr. Hare: Paying City water bills there will be a huge difference.
Mr. Gentile: They are paying Owasco water bills not the City.
Mr. Rejman: Right.
Ms. Marteney: In terms of hardship whether or not they have this pond built or not.
Mr. Darrow: My concerns; (a) safety around the pond and water of that depth and (b) and the health of the area residents with that body of water and mosquito population and diseases carried by them. Those are my two biggest concerns. If they were addressed properly I think I would be more in favor of it. But unfortunately with Planning being lead they will review any plans for fencing or anything along that line so once we give the use variance it is there forever.
Mr. Rejman: Yes Gary?
Mr. Temple: I would like to ask Corporation Counsel a question as it relates to notification for the people in the Town of Sennett. These meetings of ours are all advertised in the paper with a general circulation in the Town of Sennett. Have we done sufficient notice for the people in near proximity in the Town of Sennett as we would if they were City residents?
Ms. Hussey: I don’t have an answer for that. It is advertised in the paper and the property owners residing in the City of Auburn were notified. I am unclear whether it is our obligation to notify residents of Sennett.
Mr. Temple: Seems to me if we are going to notify people within a certain limit of feet for our residents it would seem we would extend that same courtesy to the residents in the Town of Sennett.
Mr. Gentile: He said the pond is going to be 500 yards from
Mr. Temple: But the property is not 500 yards
Mr. Rejman: But the issue before us is 500 yards.
Mr. Temple: The pond may be located the closest point of water may be located but the property itself where we are giving the variance is contiguous and I think that we owe it to those people to give notice. I am thinking in the line of a tabling this in addition to Ms. Marteney’s point that she raised which was a good one that we should look at. But to answer Mr. Darrow’s thing about the mosquitoes, to say pond are creating mosquitoes is not accurate, standing water
Mr. Darrow: I realize that but when you get down to the water that can be retained in a cast aside tire creating havoc with mosquitoes imagine a body of water an acre and a quarter what could be created.
Mr. Temple: We don’t find that problem at Hoopes Park do we?
Mr. Darrow: I don’t know.
Mr. Temple: They have nighttime things up there all the time in the summer
Mr. Darrow: I personally would like to hear something from
Mr. Temple: This is my point, the difference between a standing body of water that is stagnant and one that is moving. If this is going to be used as I think it is I think that we are going to find that there is circulation going on. Unless the applicant has some technical information from Soil and Water in this regard it would be interesting to hear that. And again that has an effect on deliberation and may want to table.
Mr. Darrow: I concur that I would like to hear from the other neighbors in Sennett who may not have known about it or were unable to attend.
Mr. Rejman: Is there a reciprocal that says that the people in Sennett are suppose to notify us? That is a great question.
Mr. Temple: I think common decency would dictate that we afford them what we would afford our own residents.
Ms. Hussey: I don’t know if notices were sent out.
Mr. Temple: We heard from one resident of Sennett who testified that he did not get such a notice and was not aware except for word of mouth.
Mr. Rejman: Why would we have to, where is the legality?
Mr. Temple: I spoke about common decency.
Mr. Rejman: Mr. Dickman, would you come back up front please. I think what we are hearing from the board is there on the favorable side but there are a few concerns that they have. With respect to a use variance, it is clear; we have clear guidelines that a dollar and cents impact statement
Ms. Marteney: How it is going to impact your business
Mr. Rejman: What you can say is here the savings and here is the I am sure working with Soil and Water they can come up with something. I think what I am hearing here is we would like to table this, we do need that, we do need dollar and cents formula given to us.
Mr. Temple: The application, item #17 scratched in N/A. That question asks please explain how you will be deprived of all economic use or benefit from your property unless it can be used for the purpose you request, which deprivation must be established by competent financial evidence. And that is what Ms. Marteney sited the absence of any financial presentation at all to help us be able to pass on this variance of this type.
Mr. Dickman: When I picked that application up from Jim Moore, he said don’t worry about the financial stuff, so that is why I put N/A. Basically yes it is going to save us some water that comes through the water meter. This is more of an environmental impact.
Ms. Marteney: But that is not in your application, you don’t speak to that how you are going to help
Mr. Dickman: Is there a sketch on the back?
Ms. Marteney: No, there is no map.
Mr. Dickman: If you would like to table it for a month, I don’t have a real problem with that.
Mr. Rejman: I would feel a lot more comfortable with it because with dollars and cents like it is then if there was any challenge to it at least that would have been covered by us, would help counsel support
Mr. Dickman: Can I still go to Planning?
Mr. Rejman: Yes.
Mr. Dickman: Ok, I will agree with that.
Mr. Rejman: The other issue of mosquitoes maybe you can get some input from Soil and Water on that.
Ms. Marteney: And the fence
Mr. Darrow: That will be taken up in the site plan.
Mr. Rejman: In the meantime we will also have Counsel look into notifying our neighbors to the east.
Mr. Temple: I make a motion that we table this for 30 days until the next regular meeting of the Zoning Board.
Mr. Darrow: I will second that.
Mr. Rejman: All in favor? (All members said aye). Tabled until next month.
Mr. Dickman: Will there be a punch list of what you are looking for?
Mr. Rejman: Yes.
Mr. Dickman: Thank you.
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15 Ross Street, R-1, rear yard area variance of 21’ for addition to be located 4’ from property line. William and Viola Stoddard.
Mr. Rejman: 15 Ross Street, are you here? State your name for the record.
Mr. Stoddard: William Stoddard.
Mr. Rejman: Ok, William, what would you like to do there?
Mr. Stoddard: We have a 6 x 10 room on the back of the house and we want to take that out and put an 8 x 14 back there for washer and a dryer, toilet and things like that to make it easier for my wife.
Mr. Rejman: The application says 9 x 14, is it 9 x 14 or 8 x14?
Mr. Stoddard: I thought it was 8. We have no estimates as yet so; he said he had to get a variance first.
Mr. Rejman: Let’s go with the 9 x 14 and that way if you want you can down size it a little bit, it is not an issue. It is going to be 4 feet from the rear property line. Any questions? None. Pretty self-explanatory. Anyone here wishing to speak for or against the application? None. This is good. Any final statements?
Mr. Stoddard: No.
Mr. Rejman: You told us what you wanted to do. We will close the public portion and discuss it amongst ourselves.
Mr. Stoddard: Thank you.
Ms. Marteney: Doesn’t impact the neighbors in the back, there is a fence you can’t even see them.
Mr. Darrow: I would like to make a motion that we grant a 21 foot rear yard area variance for William and Viola Stoddard of 15 Ross Street for the purpose of erecting a 9 foot x 14 foot addition to the rear of their property.
Mr. Westlake: I second that motion.
VOTING IN FAVOR: Mr. Hare, Ms. Marteney, Mr. Darrow, Mr. Temple, Mr. Westlake, Mr. Gentile, Mr. Rejman
Mr. Rejman: Application has been approved; get your building permit and good luck to you.
Mr. Stoddard: Thank you.
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9 Willey Street, I, 15’ side yard area variance for addition to be located 10’ from property line.
Mr. Rejman: 9 Willey Street, are you here?
Mr. Rolason: My name is Pete Rolason, I am here tonight with my wife Barbara.
Mr. Rejman: Tell us what you would like to do there please.
Mr. Rolason: We made a purchase offer on a commercial building at this location and it is a beautiful building. We intend to start a auto service center there. The only thing it lacks is a waiting room and some office area and rather than use up the valuable interior space we would like to make a 10 foot x 15 foot addition to the front of this building to use as a waiting room and office area. The big building the steel building is 30 feet x 50 feet, and it was built in 1999 I think and various variances were granted at that time for the construction of the building because the lot is small and there is a gas line and various problems. So we are just asking merely for an extension of the variance for another 15 feet that was granted in 1999. That is the way I look at it.
Mr. Rejman: And we have some maps on the back that help. Questions from the board?
Mr. Temple: Is this a business that you are going to be operating yourself?
Mr. Rolason: Yes sir. My wife, my son and myself.
Mr. Temple: Yourself and your son.
Mr. Rolason: Yes.
Mr. Temple: Do I remember correctly that you came before this board not to long ago for another property
Mr. Rolason: Yes we were negotiating for the purchase of another property on Aurelius Avenue and that fell through and we are trying again to establish a business in Auburn.
Mr. Temple: You received a variance for that one as I recall.
Mr. Rejman: That was contingent upon sale though.
Mr. Darrow: I thought it was for the purpose of subdividing the lot that is why the variance was needed because they were subdividing to sell it and therefore the smaller building needed the side yard variance for purposes of subdivision.
Mr. Temple: I guess the reason that I ask is I just wondered if you were establishing more than one business or if you were indeed were going to be located at this point at this property for sure.
Mr. Rolason: I don’t know your experiences with real estate deals, but it is never finished until the document is signed and we thought we had it on Aurelius Avenue.
Mr. Rejman: Thank you. Anyone wishing to speak for or against the application? Yes, come forward.
Ms. Viscardi: Good evening, my name is Mary Ann Viscardi. I live at East Lake Road, outside the City, but I grew up at 7 Willey Street, which is Willey, not Wiley.
Mr. Rejman: Ok.
Ms. Viscardi: Everyone pronounces it that way. My parents live next door to this garage that was built by Jim Moore. There was a home there that his mother resided in until it burned down. There are two homes on the street right now; my parents live right next door to the garage. It is becoming very commercial in that area, there is Austeel right across the street, all through the night you can hear the trucks backing up and the beeping sound and then there is also cell towers that have been built so it is pretty unattractive. Then we have this garage, which it has been ok, Jim has been, he has been great, but they want to build, according to when I called the Building Inspector’s Office, and they said it is 10 x 15 addition that if it is built the way she explained it to me, it will
go right next to their home, I know there is a little yard there but it is going to be right in front of their kitchen and living room window. Not that they want to look at the garage anyway but on the other side of the garage farther down the street, if you go past it a little ways, there is a door there that you can access to get into garage that way and I don’t see why that addition cannot be built on the other side where the door where the entrance is to the garage.
Mr. Darrow: If it is built on the side I don’t think the variance is even needed. Because it is only am I correct?
Mr. Hicks: Yes.
Ms. Viscardi: That is where the entrance is.
Mr. Temple: Which side are you looking at when you say that?
Mr. Darrow: Just slide it to the other corner of the building.
Ms. Viscardi: I didn’t see the pictures or anything, but it is going to be coming out of the garage.
Mr. Darrow: So therefore this would create a self-created hardship by putting this 10 x 15 foot addition on - on this corner which is closest to that house to the north, they are creating a self-created hardship by putting it on the south corner of the building no variance would be needed hence no self-created hardship.
Mr. Gentile: You are not opposed to the actual the garage, just the location of it?
Ms. Viscardi: Right, when you look outside and all you see is this big building and now you are going to add a 10 x 15 and when they look out in their yard that is all they see and out the window. If they had to build it go to the other side. Why build it right by their house?
Mr. Darrow: You said this would obstruct the vision of their living room and kitchen windows?
Ms. Viscardi: Yes, their whole side of the house the 10 x 15. Thank you.
Mr. Rejman: Ok, thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak for or against this application? No, can I have the applicant back please. I think we have some questions at this point. To answer the question, is there a problem with putting the addition on the south side of the building versus the north side of the building?
Mr. Rolason: Yes, there is not one major problem but there are two or three small problems that make it desirable from my point of view as prospective business owner to have it on the north side. One is the traffic pattern there coming in up to the overhead and around out again is preferable with it on that side. Put is on the south side then it disrupts the little traffic circle there that goes around the tree there in front of the building.
Secondly the electrical service is on the south side, I am not sure whether or not that will have to be moved or whether it could be inside a structure. Thirdly there is some kind of porch roof over the door
Mr. Westlake: A car hood
Mr. Rolason: A car hood right, that would have to be removed some how and you put these things together and it makes it much more desirable to have it on the north side. I would like to address the lady’s remarks there. You can see I am not a young person I have a lot of sympathy for older people, in fact I am New York State certified omnibus for the elderly and I work as a volunteer for the Wayne County Department of Health for 4 years, so I understand the concerns of older people and I sympathize. In fact the 15-foot extension may block the smaller window the kitchen window, but it definitely doesn’t block the living room window. But I will take the board’s, I have given it my best shot there and I tried to explain the benefits to the business and whatever you decide is fine.
Mr. Rejman: Any questions at this point? Ok, we will close the public portion and discuss amongst ourselves.
Mr. Darrow: Couple of his points. The traffic pattern it is just like a dirt driveway now if I am correct so that is easily correctible. The electrical service entrance that weather head and meter can be any place outside the building as long as when the SER service cable goes in the building, has to be within 6 foot of the breaker box. So that is not a major problem. The biggest problem that bothers me is it being a self-created hardship and it infringes upon the neighbors, because there is a corrective measure that can be taken without a large monetary investment.
Mr. Rejman: Other comments? No other comments? Are you ready to vote on this?
Mr. Temple: I kind of would like to re-look this over with respect to some of these things.
Mr. Gentile: What do you want to look over Gary?
Mr. Temple: The things that have been pointed out about whether it could be on the south side or not.
Mr. Gentile: Our concern is just what is on the application.
Mr. Darrow: Your personal view of the property when you viewed it. I mean that is what I am going by my personal viewing and the picture I have in my head of where this is going to be on the building in relationship to the house next door. Yes I think it would be terrific if we actually had the house next door plotted and scale, but we don’t have that, that is the purpose of us visiting the properties.
Mr. Rejman: We do on this one. I am not sure if it is to scale, it is there. But your point is well taken that if it is on the other side there is no need for a variance.
Mr. Westlake: Probably going to run $2,000 to move the electrical service.
Mr. Darrow: You can have a 200-amp service put in brand new for $2,000.
Mr. Westlake: I bet that is what it would cost in the long run.
Mr. Darrow: I am not a licensed electrician.
Mr. Westlake: I am, I do this for a living.
Mr. Rejman: Yes it is probably going to be all of $1,500 any way. Easy.
Mr. Darrow: Wouldn’t it depend on where his breaker box is on the inside of the building? If the breaker box is on that south wall then it is not a big deal, just a matter of rerouting the SER
Mr. Westlake: It is not SER, it is a conduit service, service is right there.
Mr. Rejman: Other input.
Mr. Hare: I would be comfortable voting for it right now, but the way I fell the point is well taken about this being a self-created hardship.
Mr. Rejman: You feel confident to vote on this tonight?
Mr. Hare: Yes.
Mr. Rejman: Majority feels confident to vote on this tonight. We will need a motion put forward, or I will place it myself.
Mr. Temple: I would like to make a motion Mr. Chairman, that we grant to Peter Rolason a side yard area variance of 15 foot for property located at 9 Willey Street.
Mr. Westlake: I will second that motion.
VOTING AGAINST: Mr. Hare, Ms. Marteney, Mr. Darrow – based on the fact that it appears to be a self-created hardship and simply by moving the addition to the south side of the structure you would relieve any responsibility and need for area variance, Mr. Gentile, Mr. Rejman
VOTING IN FAVOR: Mr. Temple, Mr. Westlake
Mr. Rejman: Application has not been approved.
Mr. Rolason: Thank you very much.
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202-204 Genesee Street, R-, 6,392 s.f. lot area variance for addition of 16 apartment units to be added to an existing 39. Lot area required would be 97,500. Brendon Grillo.
Mr. Rejman: 202-204 Genesee Street, are you here please.
Mr. Giacona: Good evening ladies and gentlemen, Sam Giacona and Will Walton on behalf of Brendon Grillo who appears in support of the application for an area variance. As you can tell from the packet we are shy 3 units, we don’t have enough area variance for an additional 3 units. The plan is to construct two eight-unit apartment complexes in the rear of 202 –204 Genesee Street, the present Bel-Aire Apartment Complex.
The recent application is based upon the recent acquisition of the corner of Ross Place and Genesee Street the three units from Roberta Williams. Brandon purchased that sometime in September late August and based upon the acquisition of that property increased the square footage so that we can proceed forward with the application for two eight apartment complexes, based upon the representations of the Building Inspector James Moore, who is not here tonight. So if you have any questions, we are here to help.
Mr. Temple: Looking at the neighborhood density calculation
Mr. Giacona: What page are you on? We got it.
Mr. Temple: It shows a blue area outside residential zoning what is the significance of that as I am trying to interpret this page, can you explain that to me?
Mr. Walton: Figuring the area density it is only residential property that goes into that calculation. The back area is zoned commercial.
Mr. Temple: Ok That particular property there would be the building that has the white columns in front of it?
Mr. Walton: Yes, I believe it is a funeral home.
Mr. Giacona: Former Pettigrass Funeral Home.
Mr. Temple: Ok. Back at an earlier point some consideration being made to use of a right of way or an easement or something.
Mr. Giacona: The acquisition of the corner of Ross Street and Genesee Street that problem is not moot. We no longer need that area.
Ms. Marteney: Will that building remain?
Mr. Walton: Yes. Actually the utilities are coming through it, (points to map). The very back end of that corner lot.
Ms. Marteney: The access is going to be there as well?
Mr. Walton: Access to Ross Place, yes. We have not shown but our intention is hopefully to make a connection through I think Brandon is going to join the acquisition
Mr. Giacona: That is already in process.
Mr. Walton: Our plan is once that is done would be to continue the driveway out to Ross Place as well. Currently we don’t show that on the sketch.
Mr. Darrow: Where about do you expect to intersect Ross Place?
Mr. Walton: Same place it is currently. We would not be changing that.
Mr. Temple: Do you have the dimensions of the property at 206 Genesee Street?
Mr. Walton: No I don’t.
Mr. Rejman: With your proposed acquisition will that make this whole thing moot will you have enough square footage at that point?
Mr. Giacona: No. Short three units.
Mr. Walton: Basically we went through the process with Jim Moore to figure out a way to make this feasible back early part of the summer. As you know we have been before the board with previous plans. Jim Moore’s calculations and helping us figure how to do it that was one of the reasons why Brandon went in pursuit of purchasing a lot. What happened though right before we did the drawings Jim Moore came back and said we had forgotten to include the calculation – the number of units were picked due to the corner building so those are the three units in the corner building.
Mr. Darrow: Only thing you are shy is square footage.
Mr. Walton: We are shy square footage for the units.
Mr. Giacona: The dimensions of that lot are 264 x 66.
Mr. Rejman: Thank you.
Mr. Walton: Roughly probably 25 feet x 30 or 40 feet the building itself.
Mr. Temple: Would you mind walking me through this same page that I referred to earlier on the neighborhood density calculation. On the right column there where it talks about 17 dwelling units and 68 dwelling units then it gets down to 12 dwelling units outside residential area – it can’t be the blue shaded – where is that outside the residential area that that refers to? Would that be below this dotted line here?
Mr. Walton: Yes it is.
Mr. Temple: This section down here?
Mr. Walton: Yes.
Mr. Darrow: So in calculating your request for the area variance is for the sum 6, 392 square foot, correct?
Mr. Walton: Correct.
Mr. Rejman: Let’s do this, is there anyone here wishing to speak for or against this application? Yes, come forward please and let’s get those concerns on the table.
Mr. Mills: My name is Darryl Mills and I reside at 106 Ross Place. The major concerns that I have is the size of this project you can see it is a large project. They need a variance for 3 units which 3 units is pretty large. I am concerned how far this apartment complex will be located behind my house and the property lines?
Mr. Rejman: Have you seen any of the maps that we have here?
Mr. Mills: Not any recent ones I have seen older ones and it looked 20 to 30 feet away.
Mr. Rejman: Ok, keep going.
Ms. Marteney: Could you tell us which is your house? I don’t know number wise on Ross.
Mr. Mills: It is the first house right after the one they just acquired. It is the next house.
Mr. Rejman: Take a look at the map right here.
Ms. Marteney: Yours is on the east side of Ross?
Mr. Mills: Yes. How tall will this building be, will I be able to view it from the front of my house? We have a pretty big house; will we be able to see over it? There are also a lot of other apartment buildings in the area, there is Murphy Building, there I believe it is Genesee West, another white building before that apartment complex, there are numerous apartments on upper Washington Street and all in that area. I think the project is too big I would like for them to come back with a drawing for one building maybe something smaller could work. I think it is too big of project. You can see they are trying to acquire buildings to get their plan done any way they can. If they could of bought that building they would not need a variance, they would not be here. I did not attend the last meeting but I read in the
paper their lawyer Mr. Giacona was going to talk to the neighbors and address some of their concerns and I was never contacted. Thank you.
Mr. Temple: I heard you say you live at 106 Ross
Mr. Mills: Yes sir.
Mr. Temple: Do you own that property?
Mr. Mills: That is my mother’s property.
Mr. Temple: Ok. Thank you that is all I needed to ask.
Mr. Rejman: Anyone else wishing to speak for or against?
Mr. Ryan: My name is Kevin Ryan and I am here on behalf of Joseph Carmado who resides at the corner of Ross Place and Genesee Street which is directly across from where the proposed development is taking place. Mr. Carmado came to me and expressed his concerns to this project and essentially his concerns were two fold. First of all he is concerned about the size of the project that is going to destroy the residential character of the neighborhood. As Mr. Mills just indicated there is support in the community for this proposal to be denied. How many more units can this place take? The fact of the matter is that your are going to be increasing traffic patterns and the impact on the community will be unbearable for the residents who are already forced to live who own property there. You are going to have transient residents
that will destroy the neighborhood.
Second of all the traffic patterns from this development will be going directly onto Ross Place and not Genesee Street. Again this is residential street and putting that many more units on there will increase the traffic flow and will harm the residential character of the neighborhood.
If I understood the proposal correctly as it was explained to me earlier, they are seeking a variance because they have a certain amount of acreage in place, they want to put certain units on there but they need to put the variance to put as many units as they want. Now the way I interpret that they are not deprived the economic use of that property that they originally purchased. They can’t put as many units on there as they want. Now Mr. Carmado just asks this board to enforce the zoning as it stands right now and allow them to put the new units on but not as many as they want. The simple question becomes when is enough – enough? How many more units are you going to put in this area and destroy the residential character of the neighborhood?
Mr. Rejman: Ok. Yes?
Mr. Conners: My name is John Conners; I live at 110 Ross Place. The back line of my property the southwest line abuts the Bel-Aire property. There is not much more that I can add except that I agree with the facts presented by the first two gentlemen in that this has always been an ambitious project, it is in excess of what that little piece of land can stand. By the time you put those buildings apartments in there now, they are talking about 16 more which is 36 or 40 or whatever it adds up to be, with the additional cars and people and lighting and traffic coming out of Ross Place, it is going to wreck the neighborhood. There are tons of apartments, complexes and apartments buildings, some on Westlake Avenue on Fort Street and James Street that are empty that could maybe refurbished if we need more apartments.This to me
represents overkill of a small plot of land there is going to be no green space left. By the time you put all this housing in there, parking, driveways, access areas, recreational there is going to be no green space left in there. I agree with these fellows, I am just strongly opposed to it; I just wanted to present my facts to the group here. Thank you.
Mr. Temple: The property you refer to, is that something you own?
Mr. Connors: Yes. 110 Ross Place.
Mr. Temple: Thank you.
Mr. Rejman: Is there anyone else wishing to speak for or against? Can I have the applicant back? You heard some concerns.
Mr. Giacona: The residential nature of the neighborhood up and down Ross Place there are multiple units up and down that street. A lot of them are run down. This Bel-Aire Apartments has been there for an extensive period of time and it caters to a mature tenant that stays there and what is projected is an upscale apartment complex for a similar type of clientele, certainly not transient. As I said they are more mature they tend to stay there for years, fixed income and this project did nothing but enhance the area.
With regard to those comments, what was your name sir?
Mr. Ryan: Kevin Ryan.
Mr. Giacona: Mr. Ryan’s comment as to how much more can this little piece of land take, you will note on the site plan that this is an extremely large piece of land located in the City of Auburn and my client intends to make the highest best use of this property. To limit him from doing that I think is very tragic. He wants to improve the property; he wants to increase the tax base. With regard to increased traffic, again this is a more mature tenant, very rarely one car per unit and they are not the type of people to go in and out, have loud parties, etc. Things of that nature.
Mr. Gentile: Is there a parking plan in here?
Mr. Giacona: Yes.
Mr. Darrow: L1.1.
Mr. Gentile: Ok.
Mr. Giacona: In every respect this property complies with the zoning ordinance except for the square footage.
Mr. Walton: Regarding the green space, we made an attempt to provide as much green space as buffers. The new buildings which designed and intended to be the same scale and character to the rest of the houses in the neighborhood, basically two story building with roof structure the size and scale of the building will match the character of what is there. With green space around the apartment buildings creating as much of a buffer still. In addition we are trying to keep as much of the wooded area that is at the back of the lot.
Mr. Temple: How many trees are being lost for this project?
Mr. Walton: We are loosing 4 trees that are up in what we call the center and there was a large maple tree that we lost and we are going to lose a tree here and several pine trees along here. Back in here we are basically talking about doing just some brush and thinning work.
Mr. Rejman: Sue you happy with the numbers?
Ms. Marteney: I think it is a huge apartment in a small space; I have a problem with that. Economics we don’t have any.
Mr. Rejman: Questions, we are still on questions.
Mr. Temple: I was interested in pursuing a while ago those numbers in that one chart there, I don’t know if any of us clearly ascertained how those numbers were arrived at them and so forth, density calculation I am trying to follow that, I am trying to absorb this.
Ms. Marteney: There is no hardship shown in this packet. No financials at all.
Mr. Temple: This is a little different situation
Ms. Marteney: No different situation, no hardship shown. There is no financial hardship shown. If we vote on it now we have to vote no because they didn’t provide that information.
Mr. Rejman: We do need some numbers.
Mr. Walton: I guess the only thing I can say the reason that they are not in this package it was another thing that Jim Moore had said, he was giving us the direction in the lead in terms of what we needed to do to file to get it to comply. At the time the financial was needed in the package because we were so close to what was required.
Mr. Rejman: I think what I am hearing is there are a few people on the board that would like to see some financials.
Mr. Giacona: In terms of exactly what?
Mr. Rejman: If you don’t get the three units how does that affect you?
Mr. Giacona: How does it affect him?
Mr. Rejman: Yes.
Mr. Giacona: The amount of income he is able to generate from all this income producing property.
Ms. Marteney: That is true, in black and white
Mr. Giacona: You can do the math; I mean $350 a unit
Ms. Marteney: It is not in our packet.
Mr. Giacona: Ok, we can do that.
Mr. Rejman: We are trying to cross all the “t’s” and dot all the “I’s’.
Mr. Westlake: You mentioned you are going to rent only to a certain class of people, can that be guaranteed?
Mr. Giacona: There are no guarantees.
Ms. Marteney: Absolutely no guarantee that you are going to do that.
Mr. Giacona: There is a market, Brandon what is your vacancy ratio?
Mr. Grillo: Zero.
Mr. Giacona: He has a waiting list.
Mr. Darrow: I can’t believe putting this kind of money in the buildings that you wouldn’t be selective of whom you put in them. I mean we are talking brand new structures
Ms. Marteney: Want the Fair Housing Council to hear that, I don’t think Mr. Grillo wants that
Mr. Darrow: No, but there is also living within your means, if they can’t afford the rent, they can’t move in and that is not our problem.
Mr. Gentile: Another thing I want to address if we are going to table this, are we all set on the parking?
Mr. Rejman: Parking is ok.
Mr. Darrow: In reading through our notes this is a question for counsel, if I am wrong, I am interpreting this that if these were just single story dwellings, four units, four units, there would now be enough green space to accommodate that square footage the footprint of the building. What is happening here just because the building is going up, more green space is being required therefore that is where they are 6,392 square foot short, am I correct?
Ms. Hussey: You are, I also would like to draw your attention to Section 305.34 Subdivision 5 multiple family dwelling limited apartment type of not more than 6 dwelling unit. This exceeds the maximum dwelling units. I was waiting until we closed the public portion. Apparently Mr. Giacona and Mr. Walton were correct in that Mr. Moore did advise that by separating two 8 units with a fire wall it would create two four units, but on further review that only applies to single family residences.
Mr. Darrow: So therefore this application is also incomplete and they need to apply for a variance for the units that go over 6 besides the square footage. So then I feel it would be absolutely in the best interest to table it so that it can be amended.
Ms. Hussey: I am not even sure if a use variance would be appropriate, it would be more of an issue with the density issue, more of a spot zoning issue that would be more appropriate under the jurisdiction of City Council.
Mr. Darrow: I would have to believe it would be a zoning issue only for the fact under our use variance because only 6 units are allowed and they are looking for 8. I would look at it no different than 15 parking spots required and you only have 10.
Mr. Rejman: I think we better do this. I would like to accept a motion to table, would somebody give me that?
Mr. Darrow: I would like to make motion that we table until our next regularly scheduled meeting.
Mr. Westlake: I second that motion.
Mr. Rejman: All in favor. Everyone said aye.Opposed- none.Council and Mr. Giacona would you both get together.
Mr. Giacona: When is the next meeting?
Mr. Rejman: November 25th.
Mr. Giacona: Thank you.
Mr. Rejman: Financials. Mr. Connors.
Mr. Connors: Just wanted to add Mr. Grillo’s intentions are just to rent to the best type of clientele, which is all well and good but I have lived in that area for 50 years and I know what it gets like with absentee landlords. They are not there all the time, the day-to-day, hour-to-hour stuff that goes on, the noise, and the commotion, whatever else goes on. Even though he has good intentions that fall real short for what reality is.
Mr. Giacona: Any problems right now with Bel-Aire?
Mr. Connors: No, not at Bel-Aire.
Mr. Rejman: Ok.
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76 Orchard Street, R-2, 50 s. f. area variance for 10 x 20 shed. Morgan and Mildred Boyce.
Mr. Rejman: 76 Orchard Street, are you here please? State your name for the record.
Mr. Boyce: Morgan Boyce.
Mr. Rejman: What would you like to do there?
Mr. Boyce: I would like to put a 10 x 20 shed on my property.
Mr. Rejman: And I am sure one of us is going to ask you why do you a shed 10 x 20?
Mr. Boyce: Because I happen to have a lot of toys.
Mr. Rejman: Ok. Any questions from the board?
Ms. Marteney: Can we also assume that the shed that is there is the shed you are asking for?
Mr. Boyce: Yes.
Ms. Marteney: Good looking shed.
Mr. Boyce: Thank you.
Mr. Rejman: Anyone wishing to speak for or against the application? Yes, come forward.
Mr. Norris: Joe Norris, I am his neighbor on the west and I don’t have a problem at all with it.
Mr. Rejman: Thank you very much, we appreciate that. Final questions from the board.
Mr. Boyce: I also have a letter from my rear neighbor to the south.
Mr. Rejman: Pass that to us and we will make it part of the record. Last call for questions. Hearing none we will close the public portion. Have a seat please.
Mr. Darrow: I would like to make a motion that we grant Morgan and Mildred Boyce of 76 Orchard Street, a 50 square foot area variance for the purpose of erecting a 10 x 20 foot shed as per lot plan.
Mr. Hare: I will second that.
VOTING IN FAVOR: Mr. Hare, Ms. Marteney, Mr. Darrow, Mr. Temple, Mr. Westlake, Mr. Gentile, Mr. Rejman
Mr. Rejman: Application has been approved.
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16 Capitol Street, R-1A, area variance for shed in front yard. Cindy Law (resident), Paul Diffen (owner).
Mr. Rejman: 16 Capitol Street.
Ms. Law: Hi, my name is Cindy Law and I rent the apartment at 13 Foote Street, but it is really 16 Capitol Street and I would like a variance for the shed that it is stated it is in the front yard but because it is a corner lot, both Capitol and Foote Street are the front yards.
Mr. Darrow: Two front yards.
Mr. Rejman: Two front yards. You have a very complete application here. Which is nice.
Ms. Law: I couldn’t give you a hardship cost because the contractor that I called about the cost of moving it never responded because it is so small a job that they are not interested in it.
Mr. Rejman: Let me ask this. In the event that you choose not to rent someday and you move else where, will you be taking the shed with you?
Ms. Law: My original plan was to move the shed if I were to move, so my family erected it on pallets so that we could lift underneath to move it. I could on a temporary basis I could move it if I moved, but I have the idea of having the landlord keep it because there is no other storage at that property and the basement floods every spring.
Mr. Rejman: Basement floods every spring?
Ms. Law: Every spring that I have been there.
Mr. Rejman: Questions from the board?
Mr. Temple: Your pictures seem to indicate more topography there in what photo 5 would indicate which seems to be some kind – other than the fact that there is something down there do you know if there are any kind of gas lines or anything of that nature running through there that you could put the shed over the top of it if you moved it further back on the property?
Ms. Law: I am not aware of any.
Mr. Darrow: What was your reason for picking that one side?
Ms. Law: Couple reasons that portion of the lawn is elevated from the rest of the yard and it shows that in some of the pictures. In one picture my daughter is standing next to it and you can see that it is raised. Also there is no lighting in the back yard anywhere so having it the shed doors there the light from the back porch allows a little bit of light, especially during this time of the year into the shed and having the doors face into the yard doesn’t allow the others neighbors or people walking by to see what is in there or what I am taking out or putting in. The rest of the yard is kind of dipped and it retains water.
Mr. Temple: Looking at this photo #5 again, is that door that is shown on the house there is that your entrance?
Ms. Law: That the entrance to both mine and the other unit.
Mr. Temple: Ok.
Ms. Law: There are two doors.
Mr. Temple: Two doors and one of those is yours.
Ms. Law: The door closest to the shed is mine.
Mr. Temple: Ok. I think it is a lot drawing that shows a house upon it, says City of Auburn on top of the page, is this section here I am pointing to, is this the area that porch where those doors come off of, am I looking at it correctly?
Ms. Law: To the best of my knowledge, I couldn’t quite make out that drawing myself, that was sent to me by the Assessor’s Office. But believe that is the side the porch is on Foot Street.
Mr. Darrow: I understand this is a tough plot to read, where approximately is the shed in relationship to these?
Mr. Rejman: Ed if you are using this (shows sketch) this is not a plot plan.
Mr. Darrow: What is it?
Mr. Rejman: This is from the Assessor’s Office, all this is - is square footage it is what they use to come up with the appraisal on the property.
Mr. Darrow: So this is just the
Mr. Rejman: Footprint.
Mr. Darrow: Footprint of the house.
Mr. Rejman: Yes. Not in relation to the lot.
Mr. Darrow: Ok.
Mr. Temple: I think to answer your question, please correct me if I am wrong, but in reference to that picture the long way, it would be to the upper right quarter of the space there, would that be right?
Ms. Law: I am not looking at it that way, I was thinking that this part Capitol Street and here was Foote Street, I am not sure I am reading that correctly, so then it would be here.
Mr. Temple: Ok, it would be there.
Ms. Law: By the drawing and going how the two units are laid out, that appears to me to be the way, Capital is here and Foote is here.
Mr. Rejman: Final questions? Looking around I see that there is no one here to speak for or against the application. Close the public portion. Have a seat. Again looking at the audience there is no one to speak or against. How did this get here? Do you know how this got here by any chance?
LaDouce: Suppose to be 12 ½ feet from Foote Street, it is not.
Mr. Darrow: From sidewalk?
Mr. LaDouce: Front property and it isn’t.
Mr. Rejman: And the issue here is we see where the land drops off.
Ms. Marteney: It may not be but it is far enough back in one of the photos taken further down shows that in terms there is more than a car length and they have some suburban type of thing, they can still pull out and be able to see down the street in that direction.
Mr. Rejman: It is far enough away where
Ms. Marteney: Enough sight line.
Mr. Darrow: How much area variance is need here? 12 ½ foot?
Ms. Marteney: We don’t know the distances. What is the sidewalk to the back?
Mr. LaDouce: Capitol Street and that side of Foote Street requires
Mr. Darrow: So it has to be 12 ½.
Mr. LaDouce: It has to be 12 ½.
Ms. Marteney: What is it?
Mr. LaDouce: I don’t know.
Mr. Darrow: I think we need to know.
Mr. Rejman: Such a nice application and we are down to we don’t know the number.
Mr. Darrow: I am surprised this was caught when it was turned in. Wasn’t caught and said what is your distance. You are required to 12 ½ feet, what do you have? This is the lay out drawing the plot plan of where it is situated, we want the distances.
Mr. Temple: This is again a case that is self-created.
Ms. Marteney: It isn’t a given, if we take her photos of the back yard
Mr. Temple: Those could be filled in with a load of gravel.
Ms. Marteney: She rents a house
Mr. Rejman: And the landlord allowed it – at what point does it make economic sense if you are a renter you are going to put – there is your economic hardship. You are going to put all this gravel in there just so you can move this thing back 6 feet.
Mr. Gentile: You wouldn’t.
Mr. Temple: A load of gravel was 14 yards
Mr. Rejman: What if the landlord doesn’t want it?
Mr. Temple: I paid $86 for it. So we are not talking about a big chunk of money here.
Mr. Darrow: What is the landlord doesn’t want gravel in the middle of the driveway.
Mr. Temple: Use dirt then. I am just pointing out that we are not talking about a huge expenditure here to move it back and what we are talking about ultimately is whether this is a self-created hardship or not.
Ms. Marteney: I would say as a renter it is not self-created because there is a huge dip in the back yard that she would either have to ask the landlord to pay for or she would have to fill in.
Mr. Hick: These sheds are on piers throughout the rest of the City, self locking piers, may take a little more muscle – 2 inches all the way up to 8 inches thick, stake them and set the shed on top. Very simple solution. This is going to come up more with side yard set backs.
Mr. Rejman: I have an issue with this. How far is this setting back?
Mr. LaDouce: Minimum is 6-foot back.
Mr. Rejman: The reason she is here is because the zoning office doesn’t like where it is. But the zoning office can’t tell us the footage.
Mr. LaDouce: Not up to us to determine how far back it is.
Mr. Rejman: Excuse me on my application it is, yes sir. If we are sitting here ready to make a
Mr. LaDouce: I understand, but it is not up to me to go and measure.
Mr. Rejman: If you are going to cite this lady for
Mr. LaDouce: I know it is not 12 ½.
Mr. Rejman: If you are going to cite here cite her with the footage.
Mr. LaDouce: I know it is not 12 ½. I definitely know that.
Mr. Rejman: That is like saying you were speeding but I am not sure how fast you were going.
Ms. Marteney: The Ross Street application stated exactly how much of a variance they would need.
Mr. Rejman: Which one?
Ms. Marteney: Ross Street.
Mr. Rejman: Yes.
Mr. Temple: Was there a permit obtained for this?
Mr. LaDouce: Yes.
Mr. Temple: And the person was suppose to plot it and they showed it 12 ½ feet and it didn’t turn out to be that.
Ms. Law: He is right, it is not correct.
Mr. LaDouce: We tell them all the time to tell us where it is suppose to be. I had a tape in my car, I measured it, I don’t know the exact measurement but it wasn’t 12 ½.
Mr. Darrow: We have two very very simple routes to take here. A. We vote and see if everybody is in favor of it without having the proper footage that is needed, if it is 6 foot, 5 ½ foot that the variance is needed from the sidewalk.
Mr. Rejman: How do we do that, not to exceed?
Mr. Darrow: Or it is a simple self-created hardship the permit was pulled on it being placed 12 foot 5 inches from the sidewalk, it was not placed there so we have two avenues to go.
Mr. LaDouce: 7 foot variance would cover it. I know that.
Mr. Darrow: Make it for 7 foot they will accept that.
Mr. Rejman: A 7 foot variance or self-created.
Mr. Darrow: Right.
Mr. Rejman: Fine, I like that.
Mr. Darrow: May I have the floor for motion?
Mr. Temple: I just would like to it is clear to me there are ways of moving this thing back to the place where it should be and it is not a very costly to do so. The fact that they determined to situate where it was I understand how that happened but that doesn’t take away from my perspective that this is a self-created hardship, especially where it is a tenant situation where permanency is not permanent.
Mr. Darrow: I look at these structures that are built on 4 x 4 skids if you will, it is temporary at best, not on a footer, they are not on a foundation, they are not on a slab, they are on 4 – 4 x 4 skids. It wouldn’t be hard to move it forward, just as Brian said put it on a pier, maybe one or two piers to stabilize it. That is not a big deal. But the again it is also not a big deal considering it is a side yard we are looking at a 7 foot area variance and we have enough pictures to show that it is not obstructing anything, it is not in the clear site triangle and that it is technically her back yard although the City looks at all corner lots as having two front yards. Your legal address is considered the your front and then the side you want half of the 25 foot set back. 7 foot here I don’t think is a large amount.
Mr. Westlake: There is nobody here complaining about it, no body from the neighborhood cares about it.
Mr. Temple: One of the things that I look at here is we have a landlord that doesn’t want to do anything about the basement that leaks water every year and sheds being what sheds are and if she does leave and leaves it for the landlord, what kind of care and so forth would the shed get?
Ms. Marteney: My basement leaks every spring too.
Mr. Darrow: Mr. Chairman, may I have the floor for a motion?
Mr. Rejman: Sure.
Mr. Darrow: I would like to make a motion that we grant Cynthia Law, 16 Capitol Street, a 7 foot side yard area variance for the purpose of placing a shed as noted in attached pictures, being an 8 x 10 foot shed.
Mr. Gentile: I’ll second that.
VOTING IN FAVOR: Mr. Hare, Ms. Marteney, Mr. Darrow – due to the fact that I feel is a temporary structure on skids, I vote yes, Mr. Westlake, Mr. Gentile, Mr. Rejman
VOTING AGAINST: Mr. Temple
Mr. Rejman: Application has been approved.
Ms. Law: Thank you.
Mr. Rejman: Meeting adjourned at 9:15 p.m.
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